Jamat Khane Behavior

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:43 pm

It seems recently that more and more children are becoming more and more unaware of what Jamat Khane is. They show absolutly no respect for the people around them or the cerimonies that are going on. I would just like to know what are your views about this topic... what can we as a Jamat do to help improve this issue?

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:54 pm

it's shameful
even when Mowla is giving firmans children, people
are talking DURING MOWLA'S FIRMANS
The best thing to do is educate their parents
and tell them approperiately how to behave in jamatkhane
In my opinion, I would just ignore it and concentrate during
jamatkhana because Hazar Imam is present and to yell at them
during khane really won't help the situation. After the ceremonies
have concluded then talk to their parents. However, in my
personal beliefs, I think this is a matter the WHOLE JAMAT
faces. Maybe waezins can deliver wazes on the "Signifance of Jamatkhana"

Just my humble opinion. Any thoughts people??

Thanks,
---------------

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:59 am

Its responsibiblty of teachers of religious center to teach children about religion and importance of it. They should make children aware about importance of Jk in such a way that they can undesrstand it.

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:24 am

I agree that some of the responsibility is on the religion teachers but parents should not alow there children to run off and go and sit with there friends during Jamat Khane prayers. It is not the job of religion teachers to teach the children how to behave in Khane, that is the Job and the resposibility the parent has taken.... during Bayat, the parents also make a promise to the Imam that they will raise this child to be a good human being and to be a good Ismaili. Now if the parents are not able to do such a simple task then I believe that they should re-think the idea of having children because if you look at the Church or the Sinagog or Mandir, NONE of there children behave in the mannor of which are children behave. It is not only the chilren who do this as well. Elderly senior citizens also do this. They talk out loud and laugh out loud. Then they complain about the children being dis-respectful in Jamat Khane. Just my views any opions?

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:06 pm

well, either the parents, elderly and children will all be judged on the day of judgement the Imam will ask them these questions and how
will they answer? I think we as educated ismailies can inform them
maybe urge them to behave approperiately but from Mowla
Aly's firman
" MAN IS NOT PUNISHED BY SIN BUT FOR HIS SIN" they will be punished

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:30 pm

I do not think that the children are doing this intentially. They perhaps do not know the meaning of what Jamat Khane is and why it is so important. That is why I am saying that the parents should not be throwing all of this upon religion teachers and other people to teach there children.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:55 pm

It is reponsibility of Parents to make children learn about religion but I think its responsibility of teachers is because a child goes to Jamat Khana only two days Friday and Sunday. Other days he or she is in relegious center. He or she recites dua,ginan etc over there so teachers must tell them the importance of it. If giving religious education is sole responsibility of parents only than what is the purpose of religious centre or night school?? what are they for?? For worldly education school same for religious education night school. I think its reponsibility of teachers and parents both to make child learn about importance of religion and I dont think is difficult to explain kids.

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:25 pm

Star_Munir you are absolutly right but what is happening is that the parents are dumping everything on the relgion teachers and I do not think that this is fair.... why should to teachers have to teach your child the dua meanings or why we say ginan when you are a parent are knowledgeble enough to explain this to him or her. Also, some teachers dont know what they are talking for example I had a teacher who said that it was okay if you dont say Dua, and dont give Dasond! Now if I was a parent I would not my son or daughter to go to religion school when the teachers are teaching them that, that totally contradicts the firmans of the Imam. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Sha's Chandrat Firman: "Dasond is the formost of all duties"

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:31 pm

Yup you are right Amin but again some parents are NOT knowledable
they don't know why we drink abe shefa or they don't know why we say
hazinda when we enter jamatkhana. I guess its frustrating but again
there is a limit to what we can do. Let Mowla guide them, he knows
what's happening anyway, he's given them the human intellect
it's up to them to use it. I mean when I was a kid, I didn't know what
dasond was. I only learned the concept of dasond when I was like 12
or something. But were lucky enough that our Mowla is so merciful
he will still forgive our sins. You get the drift? .............

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:32 pm

I understand what you are saying, the mercy of Allah will ALWAYS be upon us, there is not a time during the day when the mercy of Allah is not upon us. And you are absolutly right that it is frustrating to know that people are practising there faith without any knowledge about it. My sujestion would be to hold seminars on a regular basis like the one seminar at Head Quarters Jamat Khane (Toronto) which was about Identifying our Ismaili Identity. If there are more talks like that then not only will the parents learn but there children will also gain out of this

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:31 pm

dat would be great but again it takes time and effort to organize
these seminars. Maybe once a month would be good but in today's
world that even seems impossible. Inshallah we will have more seminars
I hope.

-------------

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:45 pm

"I would like the parents of my spiritual children, of my young spiritual children to make it their duty to teach the faith to their children and to teach it in the most correct form. I would like my Jamats to remember that without this there is no point in doing any work whatsoever" KARACHI, 26.10.1960

this firman explains it all

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:48 pm

"I feel that unless we are able to continue this wonderful tradition which is a burden and a duty upon The Ismailia Association in particular, to teach the younger spiritual children their Ginans, I see that we will lose some of our past and some or our past which is most important to us and must be kept throughout our lives and the lives of the spiritual children who are yet to be born" DACCA, 17.10.1960

something to reflect on.....

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:17 pm

It is my humble prayer that, when built, the Ismaili Centre in Dubai will be a place for contemplation and search for enlightenment, where people come together to share knowledge and wisdom. It will be a place of peace, of order, of hope and of brotherhood, radiating those thoughts, attitudes and sentiments which unite, and which do not divide, and which uplift the mind and the spirit (MHI, Dubai Dec 13, 2003)

In my opinion the issue of discipline in JKs is much broader than children's behaviour. The above statement of MHI should be the basis of our behaviour. As a matter of fact it a critical aspect of our lives. Jamatkhanas are the basis of our values, principles of life and unity of our community . It should be a place where we can actualise the principles of our faith. If we cannot have Islam in JKs where else can we have it. In particular every aspect of JK should be guided by MHI statement above. How we conduct ourselves while we are there. How we make appointments and allocate seva. How we give waras. With what intentions we go there.

nargisk3 · Post by **nargisk3** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:34 pm

Someone had mentioned that it's the responsibility of religious teachers to teach students the value of Jamatkhane. Trust me, as a teacher, I've tried- and ultimately, it comes down the upbringing of the parents. We only have the students once a week for 3 hours- whereas the parents have them from birth, to however old they are. If i was a parent, I don't think just TEACHING them is enough- being a good role model, and showing their children how to behave, and the importance of khane is more effective.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:39 pm

Ya Aly Madat, nargisk3

I am overwhelmed to hear your response and feedback on the issue. However, It seems you are doing as much as you can and I hope
inshallah the parents will be good role models for their children. It is
gradually helping, but I am even more worried about the future
in 25 years or so how will the kids address these issues? How will they
articulate what jamatkhana really is? As a young informed youth, I hope
with the Grace of Mowla I will try my best to educate and inform
the other youths in different jamats all over the globe on how to behave
in jamatkhana. I don't think it is a global issue. If this was in Africa
or even Syria I don't think this issue arises. I feel it is only within North
America where the levels of comfort and leisure have increased drama
tically.

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:47 pm

I dont think that the problem has anything to do with were we as a Jamat live becuase if that was the case then the Imam would not have told the East- Arican Jamat(s) to come and live in Canada or in America. The problem is that now a days, people do not go to Jamat Khane as much and becuase of this, there is a lack of knowlegde amongst the kids. If your take you child to Jamat Khane from an early age, and you teach them how to behave in Khane then these problems will not arise. There are some paretns who are so neglegant that they do not even care when his/her child uses bad lanugage in the line for Nyaz or Dua Karavi. If you as a parent wil not that the responsibility to raise your child as a GOOD Ismaili then why have you made a commitment to the Imam promising Him that you will raise your child to be a good Ismaili? If you are not prepared to make that much effort for the spiritual upliftment of your childs soul then I really think that people should think twice about having children beucase you as a parent are toying with the Imam and as well as your childs life and that is something that you can not be pardoned for. If you take your child for bayat, then YOU HAVE TO, NO MATTER WHAT raise your child to be a TRUE MOMIN of the Imam. You should teach your child the importance of Jamat Khane regardless of the fact if they learn it in Batul-Ilem classes or not. This is your responsibility as a parent and no one elses. Personally speaking, even at the age of 15 I have to sit beside my father during Jamat Khane unless I am on duty. You are in the presence of the Imam of the time and you have to conduct yourself in a proper mannor. You can not swear in Jamat Khane, nor can you levave your child to do what he or she wishes to do. Now some people will say that this is being to hard on the child, but so what? Were not our parents hard on us when it came to Jamat Khane? If this is the way that the kids will learn then so be it. We can not neglect our responsibility just to make our children feel good. I know that it is a real pain to sit beside your parents during Jamat Khane considering the fact that all of your friends are not sitting with them but, so what? Are you going to Jamat Khane to pray or to socialize. It seems now a days that it is the other way around. Kids first go to socialise and then they go to pray. It is really shameful considering the fact that we have been graced by Allah to be a part of this beatuiful faith and we neglect our duties as followers. I am very sorry if I have offended anyone in the response but this is just how I feel.

bilkis · Post by **bilkis** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:07 pm

_thaillestlunatic_ wrote:"I feel that unless we are able to continue this wonderful tradition which is a burden and a duty upon The Ismailia Association in particular, to teach the younger spiritual children their Ginans, I see that we will lose some of our past and some or our past which is most important to us and must be kept throughout our lives and the lives of the spiritual children who are yet to be born" DACCA, 17.10.1960 something to reflect on.....

Exactly!   It is the duty of Tariqa Board and teachers to teach the children their ginans. However, it is NOT THEIR duty to teach these same children HOW to behave in JK or elsewhere.  That is the duty of the parents.  If the parents cannot control their own kids, how do you expect others to control them? Parents should not 'dump' their responsibility to 'outsiders'.  If they do not know how to behave in JK, they should first and foremost learn it.  Then they can teach the children.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:26 pm

Ya Aly Madat, belkis

I totally agree with u but what if parents themselves

don't know how to behave and when to close their eyes

and when to do sijada etc etc etc

If they know then their kids will know and everything else

falls into place

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:21 pm

I think that we should give semenars about this topic. this way everyone wins, the parents and the children

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:37 pm

I think a seminar would be foolish and show complete ignorance

parents should know jamatkhana is House of Imam-e-Zaman and
go there with respect and dignity. After all everyone is answerbale
on Day of Judgement.

YAM

bilkis · Post by **bilkis** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:41 pm

aminL wrote:I think that we should give semenars about this topic. this way everyone wins, the parents and the children

I totally agree!
Something has to be done here, and I believe that seminars/wazes (not long-winded wazes-but 'educational' ones) should be incorporated on a regular basis to 'educate' the ill-informed in our jamat.

It is not only the behaviour of children that is of concern --- the behaviours of seniors, youths and baby-boomers is also of great concern! Everyone seems to think JK is a place where anything goes (except searching for spiritual upliftment).
[this is just my personal opinion].

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:51 pm

I also agree with you belkis but really is the jamat that ignorant
that we need seminars on how to behave in jamatkhana, I find
it foolish for waezens to educate the jamat on how to behave in
jamatkhana but in reality it is sad every level of the jamat does it

(seniors, teenagers, adults) The second you walk into jamatkhana
and say hazinda should be a constant reminder that the Imam
is present. If the Imam was physically present would the jamat behave
in such a way, I don't think so.

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:43 pm

How is accumulation of knowlage ignorant? if this is the case then we are all ignorant becuase we are all constantly educating ourselfs. I think that this is a totally wrong way of thinking becuase if this was the case, then why do children go to BUI? to learn about our religion in your eyes is this ignorance as well because how can they not know this stuff it is there religion. If there are not seminars then these people will continue to make there mistakes and it wont help the problem.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:24 pm

That is not what I said
read my post

when you enter jamatkhana you should know it is Imams house
and how to behave now if u don't then that is extremly sad if you agree
we neee seminars on how to behave in jamatkhana then that is showing
complete ignorance. I never said BUI was bad, I never said seminars were
bad I said seminars on the topic of "jamatkhana" are stupid. So please
make valid references for your statements. If the Imam was present
would they behave in that manner... I DONT THINK SO so they should
know Imam is ever present. That is the point I made.

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:54 pm

This is my point. You are saying educating people on this topic is stupidity. Who are you to say that this is stupidity? If you do not know then you would expect that these things would happen. Think about it, when you given audience with the queen they teach you how to behave infront of her, how to eat.... would it not be fitting that you help those who in your eyes are "ignorant"? Think about it, these days you have young boys who are sitting on chairs. How can you even do that? THE ONLY PEOPSON WHO IS ALOUD TO SIT ON A CHAIR IN JAMAT KHANE IS THE IMAM. It is even wrong for these old people to sit on chairs. There never used to be chairs in JK during the time of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Sha. This is why I am saying there should be seminars on this topic and I am sorry if you feel that this is stupidity or ignorance but if you are going to educate the Jamat then so be it. You would think that if the Imam was present that the people would be sitting properly and acting properly, i dont think so.... I was watching a movie of Mowlana Hazar Imams visit to Chicago and whilst the Imam was making a firman, a man was sitting with his legs stretched out and it was as if he was in his living room. So based on this this is why I say we need seminars

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:14 pm

Ya Aly Madat, Amin

I never said educating the jamat was stupidity. The way I feel about
educating the jamat on proper behaviour in khane, is that
every single murid of the Imam should know when they attend jamatkhana it is the House of the Imam. That they should treat
it as if they were going to the King's house. How would one treat it?
It is up to individual choice, if it comes down to holding seminars
on this issue if it is a huge issue, then so be it. Why is it that
when the Imam comes physically there are hundreds and thousands
murids waiting in line to see him but in jamatkhana there isn't. Do
people really know what jamatkhana is? Do they know how many
ruhani members are present? Do they know how many blessings they
get from serving the house of Imam-e-Zaman? Do they know how
much authority the Mukhi has? These questions in my opinion should
be addressed in seminars but not questions like how to sit in jamatkhana
how to behave unless children have these questions. It is the responsibility
of the parents to educate their children but I guess some parent's
don't know themselves. I can almost 99.9% confirm if the Imam was
PHYSICALLY present in a deedar these murids would not be talking
during farmans or dua or waez. They have to realize the Noor is present
in jamatkhana at all times. Any way it is up to each individual to decide.

YA ALY MADAT

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:29 pm

You would think that if the Imam was present people would not be doing that. But I was watching a movie of Mowlana Hazar Imam's visit to the USA and whilst ginans and firmans and quranic ayats were being recited they were not seated properly..... now if they dont know how to behave in the PRESENCE OF THE IMAM then how do we expect thme to know how to behave in jk? Make scence?

snow_white · Post by **snow_white** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:26 am

Honestly, when i went to NYC jamat khana....people were a lot better. It felt like i am going to real jamat khana. lol I am from Orlando, And not only kids but older people are so messed up. They come to jamat khana wearing skirts ...and showing off . then they carry a scarf with them...just to cover their legs ??? Lame. I mean they are still showing their legs if they are standing. Its disrespectful. My  age people are reading books in khane..while dua is being recitited. Guys and girls are hittin on eachother....and girls show off a lot. Even in chandraat majority of people were unappropriate clothes. Its shameful. I am very thankful that i know the difference between what is wrong and right. Girls compete against other girls regarding guys. I am very disappointed. I have been to Dallas and Nyc jamat khana. And i felt so happy that there are still some high-quality jamat out there.

www.ismaili.net

Jamat Khane Behavior

Jamat Khane Behavior

Jamatkhana Discipline

Imam is present