Is Quran compilation complete?

[arshad1988]

To Arshad:[\b]

The Qur'an has been guarded from corruption, as the true and only correct version of the Qur'an is still in existence, and always will be, and is in the possession of the Imam of the time. The message of the Qur'an is still being delivered even today by the Imam of the time. Mowlana Ali was the speaking Qur'an. In this sense also the Qur'an has never been corrupted and will never be corrupted. Furthermore, the Prophet once, in referring to Mowlana Hussein, said the Qur'an is standing on Qur'an, to Aisha, which is from hadiths.

Also, there is no doubt among scholars that the Qur'an is not in its actual order. If the suras are clearly not in order, then the ayats are also very possibly not in order.

Of course the burning of the copies of the Qur'an is a dishonourable thing. Particularly if one believes that Uthman should not have had the authority in the first place to decide what is actually Qur'an, and what isn't.

If Allah would have wanted the Qur'an to be compiled in a book, then He would have asked Prophet Muhammad to do it himself. Allah refers to the Qur'an continuously, however the Qur'an Uthman compiled was not even made during that time. So what is Allah referring to exactly when He says Qur'an, even when He states it as a book? Think over that and perhaps you may realize the true answer inshaAllah.

To Enzuru:

The hadiths I quoted, which you analyzed well, are simply given to demonstrate that even after the initial compilation, there were verses found. Furthermore, the amount of people dying in battle who had memorized the Qur'an could clearly have lost parts of the Qur'an with them. The hadiths speak on the ayats that were found, the implication here is the numerous ayats that were not found.

Yes, ISMS stated that Rumi and the Pirs had read the Qur'an with its true meaning, this is because beyond the zahir in the Qur'an, there is a batin. This batini aspect can be read even in Uthman's Qur'an. Even in Uthman's Qur'an we have numerous ayats that refer, implicitly or explicitly, to the Imam-e-mubin. However, ISMS and the Pirs have given pretty strong breakdowns about the ayats or siparas missing from the Qur'an. The Qur'an has 40 siparas, 10 were removed, leaving Uthman's Qur'an with 30. The ginans go into detail on this.

There is also a hadith from Mowlana Jaffar Sadiq that illustrates how certain words didnt make grammatical sense, and how a particular reference to Mowlana Ali in the Qur'an was changed to Allah, and this was proved by Him grammatically.

This is certainly your opinion on the compiled Qur'an we have today, and I respect that. But I object it. If the Qur'an were tampered with, then how can you explain these miracles from them? Especially mathematical in nature? If anything were missing from the Qur'an it would not be possible for them to extract these type of numbers.

I mean, how can it be possible that it states the word of each gender 23 times corresponding to the number of chromosomes that each human was conceived with?

I never stated that the Qur'an is compiled in the order which it was revealed. However, it is the order in which was prescribed by Allah. How else would the Prophet have read it all to the people? There had to have been some particular order. You say that there were huffaz of the Qur'an - which means they all must have remembered it in some sort of order.

Allah says:
2:176 (Their doom is) because God sent down the Book In truth but those who seek Causes of dispute in the Book Are in a schism Far (from the purpose).

3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step) in truth, the Book...

and

6:114 Say: Shall I seek for judge other than God? - When He it is who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail. They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in trut. Never be then of those who doubt.

6:38 There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we ommitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.

Kmaherali, I found a verse in the Qur'an which says:
6:92 And this is a Book which We have sent down, bringing blessings, and confirming (The revelations) which came before it: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in this (Book), and they are constant in guarding their Prayers.

Hence, I believe that when it refers to People of the Book, it refers to those revealed Books to Prophets that preached the same message. However, Allah clearly distinguishes the Qur'an by referring it to "This Book" in the aforementioned verse, yet confirming the unifying elements in the previous ones taught by the Prophets of Allah.

[arshad1988]

Surah 56: Al-Waqi'ah

75. Furthermore I Call To witness the setting of the Stars, -

76. And that is indeed a mighty adjuration if ye but knew, -

77. That this is indeed A Qur'an most honourable,

78. In a Book well-guarded,

79. Which none shall touch but those who are clean:

80 A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

81. Is it such a Message that ye would hold in light esteem?

82. and have ye made it your livelihood that ye should declare it false?

Allah calling to witness the stars, which to Him is a grave and solemn warning 'if ye but knew'.

[german_ismaili_33]

To Arshad:[\b]

The Qur'an has been guarded from corruption, as the true and only correct version of the Qur'an is still in existence, and always will be, and is in the possession of the Imam of the time. The message of the Qur'an is still being delivered even today by the Imam of the time. Mowlana Ali was the speaking Qur'an. In this sense also the Qur'an has never been corrupted and will never be corrupted. Furthermore, the Prophet once, in referring to Mowlana Hussein, said the Qur'an is standing on Qur'an, to Aisha, which is from hadiths.

Also, there is no doubt among scholars that the Qur'an is not in its actual order. If the suras are clearly not in order, then the ayats are also very possibly not in order.

Of course the burning of the copies of the Qur'an is a dishonourable thing. Particularly if one believes that Uthman should not have had the authority in the first place to decide what is actually Qur'an, and what isn't.

If Allah would have wanted the Qur'an to be compiled in a book, then He would have asked Prophet Muhammad to do it himself. Allah refers to the Qur'an continuously, however the Qur'an Uthman compiled was not even made during that time. So what is Allah referring to exactly when He says Qur'an, even when He states it as a book? Think over that and perhaps you may realize the true answer inshaAllah.

To Enzuru:

The hadiths I quoted, which you analyzed well, are simply given to demonstrate that even after the initial compilation, there were verses found. Furthermore, the amount of people dying in battle who had memorized the Qur'an could clearly have lost parts of the Qur'an with them. The hadiths speak on the ayats that were found, the implication here is the numerous ayats that were not found.

Yes, ISMS stated that Rumi and the Pirs had read the Qur'an with its true meaning, this is because beyond the zahir in the Qur'an, there is a batin. This batini aspect can be read even in Uthman's Qur'an. Even in Uthman's Qur'an we have numerous ayats that refer, implicitly or explicitly, to the Imam-e-mubin. However, ISMS and the Pirs have given pretty strong breakdowns about the ayats or siparas missing from the Qur'an. The Qur'an has 40 siparas, 10 were removed, leaving Uthman's Qur'an with 30. The ginans go into detail on this.

There is also a hadith from Mowlana Jaffar Sadiq that illustrates how certain words didnt make grammatical sense, and how a particular reference to Mowlana Ali in the Qur'an was changed to Allah, and this was proved by Him grammatically.

This is certainly your opinion on the compiled Qur'an we have today, and I respect that. But I object it. If the Qur'an were tampered with, then how can you explain these miracles from them? Especially mathematical in nature? If anything were missing from the Qur'an it would not be possible for them to extract these type of numbers.

I mean, how can it be possible that it states the word of each gender 23 times corresponding to the number of chromosomes that each human was conceived with?

I never stated that the Qur'an is compiled in the order which it was revealed. However, it is the order in which was prescribed by Allah. How else would the Prophet have read it all to the people? There had to have been some particular order. You say that there were huffaz of the Qur'an - which means they all must have remembered it in some sort of order.

Allah says:
2:176 (Their doom is) because God sent down the Book In truth but those who seek Causes of dispute in the Book Are in a schism Far (from the purpose).

3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step) in truth, the Book...

and

6:114 Say: Shall I seek for judge other than God? - When He it is who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail. They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in trut. Never be then of those who doubt.

6:38 There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we ommitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.

Kmaherali, I found a verse in the Qur'an which says:
6:92 And this is a Book which We have sent down, bringing blessings, and confirming (The revelations) which came before it: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in this (Book), and they are constant in guarding their Prayers.

Hence, I believe that when it refers to People of the Book, it refers to those revealed Books to Prophets that preached the same message. However, Allah clearly distinguishes the Qur'an by referring it to "This Book" in the aforementioned verse, yet confirming the unifying elements in the previous ones taught by the Prophets of Allah.

Arshad
you are telling that the number 23 is significant for relating on the chromosomes, I mean if you want to find numbers then you will find a lot of them relating on anything which can correspondent with it. Even the Twelvers find in the Quran twelve times the word Imam on that on proving that there are only twelve imams thats it. What the Quran meant to be is something diffrent than rather finding numbers and proving Quran is complete.

I think by showing the esoteric parts of the Quran or the hidden part of the Quran it will come to an unsolved question which the Quran should give but couldnt because of some little missing parts.

I say complete is only MHI

[arshad1988]

If the Qur'an were tampered it, would there not be inconsistancies within it?

The numerical extraction in regards to the 23 repetitions of both MAN and WOMAN coincides with natural laws. The Twelver Ismailis could extract their own numbers, but I was talking about natural laws of Allah.

Secondly, why would Allah give oaths in regards to the status of the Qur'an and how there is no possible error? Surely He, the most exalted, is in no need of giving an oath.

Lastly, I would like to make a statement in regards to the miracles of the Prophets. Many prophets had their own miracles. Moses had the Exodus, Jesus had the ability to cure the blind, bring the dead to life, Saleh had the miracle of making a camel come out of a bolder, etc etc all with the permission of God. So what was the miracle of Muhammad(pbuh)? The word ayah can be translated as a sign or miracle. The Qur'an itself is a miracle.

The pagan arabs did not know any of these facts, scientific, mathematical, etc. What did they have? Why would anyone believe Muhammad(pbuh) without any sort of proof? The proof is in the Qur'an. The linguistic miracle of the Qur'an. This is why Allah challenges mankind and jinn to produce even an ayah equivalent to it. But surely, none can. The miracles of all prophets challenged mankind in what they were expert at. At the time of Musa(as), magic was the prominent form of expertise, hence Allah gave him the ability to turn his staff into a snake, and challenged the magicians. At the time of Isa(as) the form of expertise was medicinal cures, and hence, he was able to cure the blind and raise the dead by God's permission. The form of expertise during the paganistic era was the eloquence of speech. Hence, when the pagan arabs heard the Qur'an being recited, they knew it could not be of human origine. The tyrants of that period, Abu Jahl, and Abu Sufyan before he accepted Islam and many others prevented tourists from coming into Mecca, because they believed Muhammad(pbuh) would put a spell over them. This was the case in that period.

The Qur'an I believe is divine speech. Each word is chosen with specific purpose and with profound accuracy. I will give an example.

In the Qur'an, Allah says that He created many things, which are part of nature. The word for create is 'khalakha' .

However, in Surah 57, al-hadeed, ayah 25, Allah says:
"...and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war..."

The word for We sent down is "anzalna". Now why would Allah choose this phrase for iron? Modern geologists confirm that iron is not part of the orginal Earth, and was actually sent down as meteorites.

There are many more examples of the accuracy of the chosen words. One cannot just be ignorant and say the Qur'an is incomplete without studying it, and without basing it on empirical evidence, afterall Allah does infact swear by it.

[heartbreakkid_1]

i agree with bro arshad


The Almighty introduces Iron to us in Sura 57:25: "... And we sent down the iron, in which there is strength and many benefits for the people…"

This verse marks the 26th occurrence of the word God (Allah) from the beginning of this sura. 26 also happens to be the Atomic Number of iron! Very much like a fingerprint that is unique for every human being, and no two human beings have the same fingerprint, the Atomic Number of an element is also unique for that element. Chemically, iron is a metal, and is the 26th element in the Periodic Table, (atomic number=26), but it has the Atomic Mass Number of 56.

The Periodic Table is an arrangement of known elements according to their Atomic Mass. It was first compiled in 1869, by a Russian chemist called Dimitri Mendeleev. The elements are identified and placed according to their chemical behavior and Atomic/Molecular Mass Number. Some have been discovered already, and others are made in the laboratory. Still others have not yet been discovered.

The table starts with the lightest element of the world, which is Hydrogen, and which has a molecular mass of 1. The last one on the Table is the 106th element, Seaborgium. This element is named after Professor Seaborge of Berkeley University, and is not found in the nature, but has been synthesized in very small quantity in the laboratory.

The Molecular Mass is the sum of the masses of atoms, which make up the element.Iron (denoted by the symbol: Fe), and is the 26th element on the table.

Here are some other interesting mathematical observations with regards to Iron:

Verse 25 of Sura 57 is the 19th verse from the beginning of the sura, where the word God (Allah) is mentioned. If we count all the occurrence of the word God from the beginning of the Quran including 57:25 the total occurrence is 2443. Notice that Sura 43 is the 24th initialed Sura and Sura 43 has 89 verses. Number 89 is the 24th prime number.

Some of the benefits of iron are:

The vitamins and minerals, which are beneficial for our bodies, have been discovered in the 20th century and are part of our daily nutrition; iron is one of these minerals. Iron is present in our blood hemoglobin and without it the chance of survival is limited. (Iron is present in liver, spinach and certain vegetables). Pregnant women are recommended to take iron pills to the benefit of both themselves and their babies. To enhance the growth of the plants, trees, we feed them with iron that eventually will benefit the human beings. Iron is used in cast iron in structures, buildings, bridges, and skyscrapers for its strength. It is used in machinery, equipment, cars, engines, airplanes, boats, space shuttles etc.

Why Iron? Iron is the third most abundant element of the world; (Silicon is first. Aluminum, is the second, 5% of the earth crust contains iron.

Where did iron come from? Scientist now know how iron got on planet earth and in fact there is an extensive article in Time magazine[1] about the function of iron, and the critical role it played in the formation of life:

In the beginning, approximately 4.6 billion years ago, when planet earth was being formed, there was hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and iron in space. These molecules were formed at the BIG Bang, and iron started to soak up the oxygen. This prevented the carbon and the nitrogen from reacting with oxygen. If, oxygen had combined with these two elements, carbon dioxide and nitrogen oxides would have been formed, which are both hazardous gases for human beings. Instead, iron reacted with oxygen and turned into rust, (this is the reaction that happens between iron and oxygen when it forms ferric oxide). This gave carbon and the nitrogen a chance, which both reacted with hydrogen and formed methane and ammonia. Subsequently, these two compounds eventually formed DNA (the building block of the living creatures).

After the radioactive elements slowly increased the temperature of the planet earth, the iron that was on the surface of the earth for 100 millions of years, started to melt and reached the core.

According to Science News Magazine[2], the earth 's iron core lies 2,900 kilometer below our feet. It has proved less accessible than the outer reaches of the solar system! The earth's inner core remains a solid despite the heat deep inside the planet.

Surrounding this hard center lies the outer core, which are molten iron and other lighter elements. The movement of these fluids is important because they generate Earth's magnetic field, one of the factors which help this planet to be hospitable for life. In the 21st century, if we were to open the core of the earth, we will only see iron as the major element (there is a very low percentage of nickel present too). This explains the electromagnetic field of the planet earth. If you take a compass it will show you the direction of the north.

In Sura 17 verse 49 we read: They said, "After we turn into fragments, we get resurrected anew? 17:50 Say, Even if you turn into rocks or iron.

This verse contains remarkable insight:

All the matters seek the most stable state, which is the lowest energy level. Iron is the most stable element in the world according to Quantum Mechanics, therefore given time, all matters will eventually reach the most stable state, that is they will be converted into Iron !

As you can see for yourself, a lot of the information related to iron, has only come to light in the the 20th century, and later. These details were certainly not known in the 6th century, when Quran was revealed.

Some may argue that at the time of Prophet Mohammed, iron did of course exist, and therefore could be detailed (in the Quran). While it may be true that some of their tools and utensils were made of iron, it is almost certain that they did not have the information of the key role iron plays in life. They could not possibly have known of its presence in the core of the earth, it's presence in our blood, it's atomic number, and many other benefits which are crucial to life.

As a matter of fact, one cannot help but ask, why a sura on iron? Why not a sura on silver and gold? Even with all this information, some may still say this is just coincidence. If it is all just coincidence, then it is truly an awesome coincidence.

However, logic, and the laws of odds, point to these phenomena not being a result of mere coincidences. Once that realisation is reached, the only possible, humbling, response would be to give thanks and proclaim that glory be to God, Lord of the Universe. Creator of all things, Creator of the heavens and the earth, the Seer the Hearer, the Knower, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious, the Initiator, the One God, the Only God, the Almighty, the Alpha and the Omega

[ShamsB]

There is an 1899 Farman of MSMS June 24th in Zanzibar that addresses this issue.

Shams

[heartbreakkid_1]

can u plz share that firman[in ur own words] wid us bro shams ??

[arshad1988]

heartbreakkid, you reminded me of something interesting.

A palindrome is usually a word that is spelt backwards and forwards the same way. For example, mom, dad, racecar...etc etc

The word 'wa' in Arabic usually connotates the beginning of a sentence, meaning 'and'. Hence, I have ommitted it. Do you guys see a pattern?

ر ب ك ف ك ب ر

This is actually the Arabic found in Ayah 3 of Surah 74.

What does it mean?

Magnify the greatness of your Lord

I think this ayah did just that.

We can think of palindromes such as the words I mentioned above; mom, dad, racecar, etc

But in English, is it probable that we can write "Magnify the greatness of your Lord" in any way as a palindrome? Let alone that, can we think of a sentence saying that and having it spelt backwards and forwards the same way?

This is truly amazing. Let alone saying anything, but saying something that was intended to be said.

But one must remember the pagans did not know these facts. Then why did they accept the Qur'an? Because of the greatness of the speaker, the greatness of what was said, and how it was said. These three components are what people in media say are crucial in getting a message across.

[786786_1]

ur ryte arshad

i dunno about others but deep in my heart i know that quran is complete and theres a guidance for those who use intellect

our imam e zaman mentioned it[intellect] in sooo many firmans and interviews and i think it is our duty to get into depths of holy quran to find out its spiritual meanings

but v shud not force our opinion on others bro bcoz islam does not allow that, allah[swt] said let there b no compulsion in religion and v shud follow this example

when our beloved mawla was in usa gj visit he said

"if somebdy ask u about islam tell them what is islam, if they dnt understand tell them again and if they still dont understand what is islam leave them bcoz their mind is shallow"


if u like apple its not necessary that even ill like apple , is the same thing over here bro


i hope u got my point

[786786_1]

quran consists

CREATION OF UNIVERSE

“Your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six days.” Qur’an, 7:54

“(God) who created the earth and heavens above." Qur’an, 20:4

“God then rose turning towards the heaven when it was smoke” Qur’an, 41:11

“Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then I split them apart?” Qur’an, 21:30

“God is the one who created the heavens, the earth and what is between them...” Qur’an, 25:59


ASTRONOMY

"Did you see how Allah created seven heavens, one above the other, and made in them the moon a light and the sun a lamp?" Qur’an, 78:12-13


STARS AND PLANET

The word ‘star’ (najm) in the Qur’an ( 86:3 ) is accompanied by the adjective thaaqib which indicates that it burns and consumes itself as it pierces through the shadows of the night. It was much later discovered that stars are heavenly bodies producing their own light like the sun.

In the Qur’an, a different word, kawkab, is used to refer to the planets which are celestial bodies that reflect light and do not produce their own light like the sun.

“We have adorned the lowest heaven with ornaments, the planets.” Qur’an, 37:6


ORBITS

“(God is) the one who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion.” Qur’an,21:33



THE DAY AND NIGHT

“He coils the night upon the day and the day upon the night.” Qur’an, 39:5


SOLAR APEX

The notion of a settled place for the sun is vividly described in chapter Yaa Seen of the Qur’an:

"The sun runs its coarse to a settled place That is the decree of the Almighty, the All Knowing.” Qur’an, 36:38

“Settled place” is the translation of the word mustaqarr which indicates an exact appointed place and time. Modern astronomy confirms that the solar system is indeed moving in space at a rate of 12 miles per second towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules ( alpha lyrae ) whose exact location has been precisely calculated. Astronomers have even give it a name, the solar apex.


EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE

Chapter ath-Thaariyaat of the Qur’an also seems to allude to one of the most imposing discoveries of modern science, the expansion of the Universe.

“I built the heaven with power and it is I, who am expanding it.” Qur’an,51:47


CONQUEST OF SPACE

Among the achievements of modern science is the “conquest” of space which has resulted in mans journey to the moon. The prediction of this event surely springs to mind when we read the chapter ar-Rahmaan in the Qur’an:

“O assembly of Jinns and men, if you can penetrate the regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate them! You will not penetrate them except with authority.” Qur’an,55:33

Authority to travel in space can only come from the Creator of the laws which govern movement and space. The whole of this Qur’anic chapter invites humankind to recognize God’s beneficence


WATER CYCLE

Let us examine, for example, the following verse in chapter az-Zumar:

“Have you not seen that Allah sent rain down from the sky and caused it to penetrate the ground and come forth as springs, then He caused crops of different colors to grow...” Qur’an,39:21


MOUNTAINS

Let us now compare modern ideas with one verse among many in the Qur’an that deals with this subject. It is taken from chapter an-Naba’:

“Have We not made the earth an expanse and the mountains stakes?”
Qur’an, 78:6-7

Stakes ( awtaad ), which are driven into the ground like those used to anchor a tent, are the deep foundations of geological folds.

Here, as in the case of all the other topics presented, the objective observer cannot fail to notice the absence of any contradiction to modern knowledge.


BIOLOGY

“Do the unbelievers not realize that the heavens and the earth were joined together,

then I clove them asunder and I made every living thing out of water. Will they still not believe?” Qur’an, 21:30


BOTANY

“(God is the One who) sent down rain from the sky and with it brought forth a variety of plants in pairs.” Qur’an, 20:53

Today we know that fruit comes from plants that have sexual characteristics even when they come from unfertilized flowers, like bananas. In the chapter ar-Ra‘d we read the following:

“... and of all fruits (God) placed (on the earth) two pairs.” Qur’an, 13:3


PHYSIOLOGY

“Verily, in cattle there is a lesson for yon. I give you drink from their insides, coming from a conjunction between the digested contents ( of the intestines ) and the blood, milk pure and pleasant for those who drink it.” Qur’an, 16:66


The constituents of milk are secreted by the mammary glands which are nourished by the product of food digestion brought to them by the bloodstream. The initial event which sets the whole process in motion is the conjunction of the contents of the intestine and blood at the level of the intestinal wall itself.

This very precise concept is the result of the discoveries made in the chemistry and physiology of the digestive system over one thousand years after the time of Prophet Muhammad (S).


FERTILIZATION

“Verily, I created humankind from a small quantity of mingled fluids.” Qur’an, 76:2

“Then He made [ man’s ] offspring from the essence of a despised fluid.”
Qur’an, 32:8


IMPLANTATION

“God fashioned humans from a clinging entity.” Qur’an, 96:2


[EMBRYO

“I fashioned the clinging entity into a chewed lump of flesh and I fashioned the chewed flesh into bones and I clothed the bones with intact flesh.” Qur’an, 23:14

“I fashioned (humans) a clinging entity, then into a lump of flesh in proportion and out of proportion.” Qur’an, 22:5.

“... and (God) gave you ears, eyes and hearts.” Qur’an, 32:9

[arshad1988]

There are still copies in museums of the Qur'ans which were compiled during the time of Uthman. These copies match the ones which are the ones in our hands today. Does this not prove that the Qur'an has been preserved by Allah?

I mean, if you look at Christians today, they are yet 'revising' their scriptures until this date with their 'Revised Standard Version' of the King James Bible. One can clearly tell that that book has been in fact tampered with.

So I ask again, doesn't the fact that the copies from the 7th Century within the museums in Egypt and I believe 2 other areas, prove that it has in fact been preserved? One cannot possibly corrupt it now, as proven with the case of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and the Ahmadiyyas/Qadiyanis and how he himself tampered with the Qur'an and made his own version, and not too long after this tamperment was caught.

[ShamsB]

There are still copies in museums of the Qur'ans which were compiled during the time of Uthman. These copies match the ones which are the ones in our hands today. Does this not prove that the Qur'an has been preserved by Allah?

I mean, if you look at Christians today, they are yet 'revising' their scriptures until this date with their 'Revised Standard Version' of the King James Bible. One can clearly tell that that book has been in fact tampered with.

So I ask again, doesn't the fact that the copies from the 7th Century within the museums in Egypt and I believe 2 other areas, prove that it has in fact been preserved? One cannot possibly corrupt it now, as proven with the case of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and the Ahmadiyyas/Qadiyanis and how he himself tampered with the Qur'an and made his own version, and not too long after this tamperment was caught.

As posted before a number of times....FOLLOW THE FARMANS OF THE IMAM...in particular those made in June 1899 in Zanzibar - you will get your answers.

Shams

[TheMaw]

I mean, if you look at Christians today, they are yet 'revising' their scriptures until this date with their 'Revised Standard Version' of the King James Bible. One can clearly tell that that book has been in fact tampered with.

They are revising the translations, not the text. The New Testament was not written in 15th century English! And many translations into Western languages were made not from the Greek, but from the Latin. (No original Aramaic Gospels exist: the ones that do are clearly translations from the Greek.)

So be fair: they're not revising the text, but the translation. Translations of the Qur'an for non-fluent Arabic speakers vary in just the same ways, and the first one was made into Pahlavi (Middle Persian) just after the time of the Prophet.

[saleemsadruddin1]

It is not possible that these numbers are coincidence, if it would have been than it would have 1 or 2 but not as many as we discussed over here.

In today's world of calculator we can easily see miracle of Quran and numbers which might have not possible 1400 years back, likewise today we found many facts one example refer to Solar system:

(God) subjected the sun and the moon: each one runs its course to an appointed term (13:2)

What we are debating here is:
Is Quran complete?
Changing of meaning of Quran according to time by Imam of time.

There is a difference between Tafsir (authoritative translation) and amending facts.

Even if you deny that Quran is complete, you cannot deny about the available Quran and therefore what about its available facts?

There is no person on Earth including Hazrat Muhammad PBUH to amend Quran because no one is eligable or authorized to change words of God. It exist for ever and no one can change it and God is there to protect each and every alphabet of it.

The matter is simple, you need to understand between translation of Quran and amending Quran according to time. I do not belive in later one.

[arshad1988]

I mean, if you look at Christians today, they are yet 'revising' their scriptures until this date with their 'Revised Standard Version' of the King James Bible. One can clearly tell that that book has been in fact tampered with.

They are revising the translations, not the text. The New Testament was not written in 15th century English! And many translations into Western languages were made not from the Greek, but from the Latin. (No original Aramaic Gospels exist: the ones that do are clearly translations from the Greek.)

So be fair: they're not revising the text, but the translation. Translations of the Qur'an for non-fluent Arabic speakers vary in just the same ways, and the first one was made into Pahlavi (Middle Persian) just after the time of the Prophet.

The Christians do not have existing copies of any of the original scripts. Just to go off in a tangent, I have posted an article by a prominent Bible scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman in regards to this manner...quite interesting.


Bart Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus'
by Terry Gross

Fresh Air from WHYY, December 14, 2005 · Scholar Bart Ehrman's new book explores how scribes -- through both omission and intention -- changed the Bible. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why is the result of years of reading the texts in their original languages.

Ehrman says the modern Bible was shaped by mistakes and intentional alterations that were made by early scribes who copied the texts. In the introduction to Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman writes that when he came to understand this process 30 years ago, it shifted his way of thinking about the Bible. He had been raised as an Evangelical Christian.

Ehrman is also the author of Lost Christianities: The Battle for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, which chronicles the period before Christianity as we know it, when conflicting ideas about the religion were fighting for prominence in the second and third centuries.

The chairman of the religious studies department at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, Ehrman also edited a collection of the early non-canonical texts from the first centuries after Christ, called Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament.

Read an excerpt from Misquoting Jesus:

Chapter One

The Beginnings of Christian Scripture

To discuss the copies of the New Testament that we have, we need to start at the very beginning with one of the unusual features of Christianity in the Greco-Roman world: its bookish character. In fact, to make sense of this feature of Christianity, we need to start before the beginnings of Christianity with the religion from which Christianity sprang, Judaism. For the bookishness of Christianity was in some sense anticipated and foreshadowed by Judaism, which was the first "religion of the book" in Western civilization.

Judaism as a Religion of the Book

The Judaism from which Christianity sprang was an unusual religion in the Roman world, although by no means unique. Like adherents of any of the other (hundreds of ) religions in the Mediterranean area, Jews acknowledged the existence of a divine realm populated by superhuman beings (angels, archangels, principalities, powers); they subscribed to the worship of a deity through sacrifices of animals and other food products; they maintained that there was a special holy place where this divine being dwelt here on earth (the Temple in Jerusalem), and it was there that these sacrifices were to be made. They prayed to this God for communal and personal needs. They told stories about how this God had interacted with human beings in the past, and they anticipated his help for human beings in the present. In all these ways, Judaism was "familiar" to the worshipers of other gods in the empire.

In some ways, though, Judaism was distinctive. All other religions in the empire were polytheistic -- acknowledging and worshiping many gods of all sorts and functions: great gods of the state, lesser gods of various locales, gods who oversaw different aspects of human birth, life, and death. Judaism, on the other hand, was monotheistic; Jews insisted on worshiping only the one God of their ancestors, the God who, they maintained, had created this world, controlled this world, and alone provided what was needed for his people. According to Jewish tradition, this one all-powerful God had called Israel to be his special people and had promised to protect and defend them in exchange for their absolute devotion to him and him alone. The Jewish people, it was believed, had a "covenant" with this God, an agreement that they would be uniquely his as he was uniquely theirs. Only this one God was to be worshiped and obeyed; so, too, there was only one Temple, unlike in the polytheistic religions of the day in which, for example, there could be any number of temples to a god like Zeus. To be sure, Jews could worship God anywhere they lived, but they could perform their religious obligations of sacrifice to God only at the Temple in Jerusalem. In other places, though, they could gather together in "synagogues" for prayer and to discuss the ancestral traditions at the heart of their religion.

These traditions involved both stories about God's interaction with the ancestors of the people of Israel -- the patriarchs and matriarchs of the faith, as it were: Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rachel, Jacob, Rebecca, Joseph, Moses, David, and so on -- and detailed instructions concerning how this people was to worship and live. One of the things that made Judaism unique among the religions of the Roman Empire was that these instructions, along with the other ancestral traditions, were written down in sacred books.

For modern people intimately familiar with any of the major contemporary Western religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), it may be hard to imagine, but books played virtually no role in the polytheistic religions of the ancient Western world. These religions were almost exclusively concerned with honoring the gods through ritual acts of sacrifice. There were no doctrines to be learned, as explained in books, and almost no ethical principles to be followed, as laid out in books. This is not to say that adherents of the various polytheistic religions had no beliefs about their gods or that they had no ethics, but beliefs and ethics -- strange as this sounds to modern ears -- played almost no role in religion per se. These were instead matters of personal philosophy, and philosophies, of course, could be bookish. Since ancient religions themselves did not require any particular sets of "right doctrines" or, for the most part, "ethical codes," books played almost no role in them.

Judaism was unique in that it stressed its ancestral traditions, customs, and laws, and maintained that these had been recorded in sacred books, which had the status, therefore, of "scripture" for the Jewish people. During the period of our concern -- the first century of the common era, when the books of the New Testament were being written -- Jews scattered throughout the Roman Empire understood in particular that God had given direction to his people in the writings of Moses, referred to collectively as the Torah, which literally means something like "law" or "guidance." The Torah consists of five books, sometimes called the Pentateuch (the "five scrolls"), the beginning of the Jewish Bible (the Christian Old Testament): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Here one finds accounts of the creation of the world, the calling of Israel to be God's people, the stories of Israel's patriarchs and matriarchs and God's involvement with them, and most important (and most extensive), the laws that God gave Moses indicating how his people were to worship him and behave toward one another in community together. These were sacred laws, to be learned, discussed, and followed -- and they were written in a set of books.

Jews had other books that were important for their religious lives together as well, for example, books of prophets (such as Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Amos), and poems (Psalms), and history (such as Joshua and Samuel). Eventually, some time after Christianity began, a group of these Hebrew books -- twenty-two of them altogether -- came to be regarded as a sacred canon of scripture, the Jewish Bible of today, accepted by Christians as the first part of the Christian canon, the "Old Testament."

Excerpted from Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman. Copyright © 2005 by Bart Ehrman. Excerpted by permission of HarperCollinsSanFrancisco, a division of HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher.

[ShamsB]

It is not possible that these numbers are coincidence, if it would have been than it would have 1 or 2 but not as many as we discussed over here.

In today's world of calculator we can easily see miracle of Quran and numbers which might have not possible 1400 years back, likewise today we found many facts one example refer to Solar system:

(God) subjected the sun and the moon: each one runs its course to an appointed term (13:2)

What we are debating here is:
Is Quran complete?
Changing of meaning of Quran according to time by Imam of time.

There is a difference between Tafsir (authoritative translation) and amending facts.

Even if you deny that Quran is complete, you cannot deny about the available Quran and therefore what about its available facts?

There is no person on Earth including Hazrat Muhammad PBUH to amend Quran because no one is eligable or authorized to change words of God. It exist for ever and no one can change it and God is there to protect each and every alphabet of it.

The matter is simple, you need to understand between translation of Quran and amending Quran according to time. I do not belive in later one.

I think you misread or misunderstand. No one is disputing the content, what is there can not be corrupted or changed - atleast the words can't. However as per the farman of the Imams (the all knowing), as per history recorded by numerous Muslim scholars; Uthman during his Caliphate complied the Quran so as to support and reflect his Caliphate and that of Abu Bakr and Umar before him.
There is an Islamic History class taught at Columbia that devotes a great deal of time discussing this subject.
If the Quran was as complete as you claim it to be, then it would've been compiled in chronological order.

As for changes in the Quran - outside of the IMAM not the PROPHET, but the IMAM no one can make changes. The Prophet was not the author of the Quran - ALLAH was and as per our belief that NOor is in the Manifest Imam.

Shams

[razinizar]

My Dear Fellow Brothers.
As our beloved spiritual father is trying to make a bridge between different communities, please don't try to break it, It is not important to know that Quran is completed or not (Only God Knows it). Rather it is important for us to understand and follow the Quran as our Beloved Imam has ordered us to do so.
As our Tariqa tells us that Quran has Several Layers. please try to focus on that.
Hazrat Abu Bakar, and other Khalifa's has a great contribution in Islam, Kindly respect them as well.

[kmaherali]

Rather it is important for us to understand and follow the Quran as our Beloved Imam has ordered us to do so.
As our Tariqa tells us that Quran has Several Layers. please try to focus on that.
Hazrat Abu Bakar, and other Khalifa's has a great contribution in Islam, Kindly respect them as well.

While we must appreciate the bridge building aspect of the Quran, MHI has told us to study the Quran selectively (only parts of the Quran) and also under his guidance. Studying it without guidance can be dangerous for individuals who do not have a strong background in our concepts....

[arshad1988]

The pagan arabs were nonbelievers before the advent of Muhammad(saws). They did not selectively choose to study parts of the Qur'an. They got it whether they liked it or not. Is there a firman which says to only study parts of it?

[arshad1988]

One must also remember the Qur'an claims to be a message for 'mankind'. How would the rest of mankind be able to approach the firmans of Hazar Imam? It would be much easier to pick up the Book. Hence, my argument in regards to the preservation of the Qur'an.

[kmaherali]

The pagan arabs were nonbelievers before the advent of Muhammad(saws). They did not selectively choose to study parts of the Qur'an. They got it whether they liked it or not. Is there a firman which says to only study parts of it?

It is important that in learning parts of the Quran, you must
clearly understand the meaning. If you recite parts of the Quran,
certain words must represent to you a concept. If you study the
Quran-e-Sharif, this concept will become well known to you and through
you to the Jamat at large. This takes many years of study. I do not
want you to think that this can be learnt easily or without hard work.
- Mawlana Hazar Imam, (Bombay, November 22, 1967)

"I would like you to go on improving your knowledge and your understanding of the Dua and of those parts of the Quran-e-Sharif which are important to us in our everyday lives, in our
understanding of our Faith." (Farman)

If you have the Farman book 'Precious Gems' all references to the study of the Quran mention parts of.

[kmaherali]

One must also remember the Qur'an claims to be a message for 'mankind'. How would the rest of mankind be able to approach the firmans of Hazar Imam? It would be much easier to pick up the Book. Hence, my argument in regards to the preservation of the Qur'an.

Yes it is the message for mankind. However there are many many interpretations possible and that is its strength, that it can guide mankind with this diversity. Yes the Quran needs to be preserved as it is the unifying factor of the Umma. In fact we have a whole department at the ISS dedicated to the Quranic Studies.

Farmans represent our tafsir of the Quran. These should not be shared with those who are not part of our Tariqah.

[rizwan_78]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Lawh Mahfuz. According to the Oxford Islamic Studies Online, the definition of Lawh Mahfuz is as follows:

Lawh Mahfuz

Well-preserved tablet. Phrase used in Quran 85:22 to refer to the original codex or document on which the Quran, according to traditional commentators, was originally inscribed and which has always existed in heaven. Associated with another description of the divine archetype of revelation, “mother of the book” (Quran 3:6; 13:39; 43:3).

http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/art ... t125/e1336

According to this, it is evident that the book that is in our hands is not the one that is preserved. In fact it is the "mother of the book" which is the book that is preserved by Allah and that is in his possession. It was an interesting point someone brought up here that what book was Allah actually referring to in the revelation of the Quran, when in effect, the Quran hadn't taken the form of a book until much later. Thus, the book being referred to in the Quran is most likely the Lawh Mahfuz which is with and being preserved by Allah, Himself.

[kmaherali]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Lawh Mahfuz. According to the Oxford Islamic Studies Online, the definition of Lawh Mahfuz is as follows:

Reference to the archetypal book was made in the first post of the previous page (7).....

[From_Alamut]

Ya 'ALI' Madad and Salam

I have a verse of the Holy Quran, which I tried to understand its deeper meaning but I couldn't. If there is anyone who could help me, I really appreciate it. Ch. 42. V. 22 Ash-Shura (the counsel) holy Quran. "Say, I do not ask you to pay me ( for the guidance) any reward excepting your love for my kith and kin"

Can someone please explain who are the Kith and kin?


Regard

[TheMaw]

I have a verse of the Holy Quran, which I tried to understand its deeper meaning but I couldn't. If there is anyone who could help me, I really appreciate it. Ch. 42. V. 22

Verse 23 (not 22) reads,

That is of which God gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely God is Forgiving, Grateful.

There is a discussion of this in Qadi Nu'man's Da3aa'im al-Islaam, where it says,

From Imaam Muhammad al-Baaqir: The Imaam was asked concerning the same revelation [42:23]. He said, "This is an obligatory command of God for his servants concerning Muhammad and the People of his House. The community was split into four factions regarding its true significance. One of them upheld our interpretation and said that it was revealed in respect of the People of the House of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.

I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for, exactly: there's a few pages of citations of the Imaams with this interpretation, so you could always look it up.

[From_Alamut]

I have a verse of the Holy Quran, which I tried to understand its deeper meaning but I couldn't. If there is anyone who could help me, I really appreciate it. Ch. 42. V. 22

Verse 23 (not 22) reads,

That is of which God gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely God is Forgiving, Grateful.

There is a discussion of this in Qadi Nu'man's Da3aa'im al-Islaam, where it says,

From Imaam Muhammad al-Baaqir: The Imaam was asked concerning the same revelation [42:23]. He said, "This is an obligatory command of God for his servants concerning Muhammad and the People of his House. The community was split into four factions regarding its true significance. One of them upheld our interpretation and said that it was revealed in respect of the People of the House of Muhammad, the Messenger of God.

I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for, exactly: there's a few pages of citations of the Imaams with this interpretation, so you could always look it up.

Thank you "TheMaw" for your wonderful help. Now, I have found my answers to my questions, from the book "Kitab-ul-Himma fi Adabi Ataba-el-A`emma"

Code: Select all

 by Qazi Noaman (as)....Translated into English by Prof. Jawad Muscati Ustad-fi-Uloom-il-Arabiya and Khan Bhadur Prof. A. Mouluvi, M.A..........

I will be quoting some pages which are related to my preview questions.

Page, 21.  [b]When the messenger of God was asked as to whom were his Kith and Kin, he replied " Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husain."  He further said " He who loves them, loves me.  He who hates them, hates me,"  none but a 'momin' loves Ali and none but a hypocrite hates Ali[/b] 

Page, 21. Imam Mohammad al-Baqir bin Ali, greetings be on him, was asked to explain the meaning of the verse [b]"I do not ask for any remuneration excepting love for my kith and kin."[/b] He explained it by saying, [b]"It is the duty of every 'momin' to love us who are the 'Ahle-bait', the kith and kin of Mohammad."[/b]  He further said "He who loves us, will rise with us on the Day of Judgment."


Here, I was asked the Ismaili scholar Mumtaz Ali about who are the kith and kin, here is his answer to my question. 

[i]The verse simply indicate that God commands to the Prophet to announce before the Muslims that he did not want any reward for his mission except that they love his family members, i.e. Ahel Bayt. In other words, it is also said that the Muslims thanked the Prophet to bring them on straight path, asking him what they do for him, and on such occasion, the Koranic verse revealed, in which God told to the Prophet to inform the Muslims that he did not want anything else except that they love his Ahel Bayt. This was the major point which the majority of the Muslims ignored soon after the death of the Prophet. The Sunnis are very cunning in its interpretation that the kind and kith means all  the family members related to the Prophet directly and indirectly, but the Shia's interpretation is quite correct that the kin and kith mean only Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain and none else - Panjtan Pak including the Prophet.[/i]
Mumtaz Ali

[hungama25]

"The Qur'an itself repeatedly recommends Muslims to become better educated in order better to understand God's creation"(ClosingAddress by His Highness Aga Khan IV at the "Musée-Musées" Round Table Louvre Museum, Paris, France, October 17th 2007)

"Quran Symposium:....a reflection of how Islam's revelation, with its challenge to man's innate gift of quest and reason, became a powerful impetus for a new flowering of human civilisation.This programme is also an opportunity for achieving insights into how the discourse of the Qur'an-e-Sharif, rich in parable and allegory, metaphor and symbol, has been an inexhaustible well-spring of inspiration, lending itself to a wide spectrum of interpretations. In this context, would it not also be relevant to consider how, above all, it has been the Qur'anic notion of the universe as an expression of Allah's will and creation that has inspired, in diverse Muslim communities, generations of artists, scientists and philosophers? Scientific pursuits, philosophic inquiry and artistic endeavour are all seen as the response of the faithful to the recurring call of the Qur'an to ponder the creation as a way to understand Allah's benevolent majesty. As Sura al-Baqara proclaims: 'Wherever you turn, there is the face of Allah'.The famous verse of 'light' in the Qur'an, the Ayat al-Nur, whose first line is rendered here in the mural behind me, inspires among Muslims a reflection on the sacred, the transcendent. It hints at a cosmos full of signs and symbols that evoke the perfection of Allah's creation and mercy"(Aga Khan IV, Speech, Institute of Ismaili Studies, October 2003, London, U.K.)


"The Quran very often refers to nature as a reflection of Allah's power of creation and says: Look at the mountains, look at the rivers, look at the trees, look at the flowers all as evidence ofAllah's love for the people whom He has created. Today I look at this environment and I say that I beleive that Allah is smiling upon you, may His smile always be upon you"(Aga Khan IV, Khorog, Tajikistan, May 27th 1995)




Kathalika yubayyinu Allahu lakum ayatihi la'allakum ta-'aqiloona:

"Allah thus makes clear to you His Signs that you may intellect"(Holy Quran 2:242)

[From_Alamut]

This is an interesting Sunni hadith which is from their highest scholar:

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith - 6.580 - Narrated by Abdullah
The Prophet said, "Recite (and study) the Qur'an as long as you agree about its interpretation, but if you have any difference of opinion (as regards to its interpretation and meaning) then you should stop reciting it (for the time being)."

Based on Qur'an our interpretations are often different from sunnis and shias. The Qur'an itself says that Allah speaks in allegories:

And Allah speaks to mankind in allegories, for Allah is knower of all things. [Quran: An Noor, Chapter 24]

If all of us Muslims are to stop reciting verses in Qur'an because we differ in interpretation then this makes us and all Muslims need an Imam much much more.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

".....It is related on the good authority that the Commander of the Faith ALI IBN ABU TALIB was one day reading the Quran. In the course of his reading when he arrived at the following verse, "This book of our speaks to you the truth," he stopped reading. He placed the Quran on his head and said, "O book of God speak. O book of God speak. O book of God speak. By repeating this thrice he has made it clear to us that he is `speaking book` of God and that the Quran is the `silent book`................."

Reference: Life and Lectures of the GRAND MISSIONARY AL-MUAYYAD-FID-DIN AL-SHIRAZI....By Prof. Jawad Muscati, Ustad-fil-uloomil-Arabiya AND Khan Bahadur A.M Mowlvi M.A.......Page, 139

"...........The True Meaning of the Quran Cannot be Understood Without the Help of the Imams......"

Reference: Life and Lectures of the GRAND MISSIONARY AL-MUAYYAD-FID-DIN AL-SHIRAZI....By Prof. Jawad Muscati, Ustad-fil-uloomil-Arabiya AND Khan Bahadur A.M Mowlvi M.A.......Page, 131

[From_Alamut]

There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia,
concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS), possessed a
special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and
he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran. There are a great number of traditions
from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet
(PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an
oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until
he collects together the Quran.

Sunni references:
- Fat'hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10,
p386
- al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
- al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
- Hilyatul awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p67
- al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
- 'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31


There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92,
pp 40-41,48,51-52).


This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following
unique specifications:

a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in
which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen
(33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the
companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not
passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in
our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."

Sunni References:
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32


It is according to this transcript that Sunni scholars relate that the
first Chapter of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was
Chapter al-Iqra (al-Alaq, Ch. 96).

Sunni References:
- al-Burhan, by al-Zarkashi, v1, p259
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p202
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p417
- Irshad al-sari, by al-Qastalani, v7, p454

As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present
Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the
last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not
toward the end of the present Quran. This clearly proves that although
the Quran that we have available is complete, it is not in the order
that has been revealed. These few misplacements were done by some
companions on purpose at worst, or out of ignorance at least.

It was for this reason that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) frequently
stated in his sermons: "Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me
about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you
about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question
about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah,
for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was
sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain
or in a mountain."

Sunni References:
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p198
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, p124
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319


b) This transcript contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation
(Tafsir and Ta'wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down
as revelation but NOT as a part of the text of Quran. A small amount of
such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi. These pieces of
information were the Divine commentary of the text of Quran which were
revealed along with Quranic verses. Thus the commentary verses and Quranic
verses could sum up to 17000 verses. As Sunnis know, Hadith al-Qudsi (the
Hadith in which the speaker is Allah) is also direct revelation, but they
are not a part of Quran. In fact Quran testifies that anything that Prophet
said was (either direct or indirect) revelation (See Quran 53:3-4). The
direct revelation includes the interpretation/commentary of the Quran.

In addition, this unique transcript contained the information from the Holy
Prophet about which verse was abrogated and which was abrogating, which
verse was clear (Muhkam) and which was ambiguous (Mutashabih), which verse
was general and which was specific.

c) This unique transcript also contained references to the persons, places
etc., about which the verses were revealed, what is called "Asbab al-
Nuzul". Since the Commander of Believers was aware of these facts, he
frequently said: "By Allah, no verse has been sent down without my knowing
about whom or what it was revealed and where it was revealed. My Lord has
gifted me with a mind which has a quick and retaining understanding, and a
tongue which speaks eloquently."

Sunni References:
- Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v1, pp 67-68
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197


After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented it
to the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the book
of Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet."
but they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We have
with us what you possess." Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcript
back and informed them that they will never see it again. It is reported
that Imam Ali recited the latter part of the following verse of Quran:

"And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to
clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but
they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some
miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"
(Quran 3:187)