BAITULKHAYAL-BANDAGI WITHOUT BOL?

[minazre]

HOW CAN ONE BENEFIT IN BANDAGI WITHOUT BOL?
THE FIRMANS READ IN BAITUL KHAYAL ALWAYS REFER TO BOL, THERE R MURIDS WHO DON'T HAVE BOL ,SO HOW DO U MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND THE BENEFIT OF BAITUL KHAYAL(BANDAGI)4AM-5AM.

[nagib]

In the absence of Bol one may use "Pirshah" which is the Haq Nam [Name of the Truth], the Sat Shabd..

As says Bhram Praksh, the "Sat Shabd hai guru hamara"

Nagib

[danu]

I DONT THINK THAT BOL S NECCESSARY FOR THE BANDAGI
JUST TAKE A NAME OF ALLAH OR TAKE "YA ALI" AND CONTINUE YOUR PRACTISED I THINK F U'LL CONTINUE YOUR PRACTICE AND IF ISHALLAH MOWLA PLEASE ON U AND WILL GIVE U HIS SPRITUAL DEEDAR

BUT
IF ONCE U TAKE THE BOL U HAVE TO PRACTISED IT REGUUARLY
ONCE A MAN ASKED SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH I'VE FORGETTEN MY BOL THE IMAM REPLY IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A MAN FORGETS HIS FATHER NAME
THANK U
DANISH

[shamsu]

DANU u r right u do not need bol to do bandagi but Imam states in his farman

[Partially deleted by Admin:. Please no dicussion on Bol meaning here~]

All bandagi is done to find noor to search noor to reach noor to be noor.

Bol is Nur.

What else can I say.


Bol is the purpose of Bandagi. To become one with Bol is the purpose of Bandagi.


I wish there was a more confidential forum to discuss these matters.

any way all I have said is from my understanding of Mowla's Farmans.

Ya Aly Madad

SHAMS

[alinizar313]

Of coursre you can do bandagi without "BOL". Just to do the selfless rememberance of any sacred name. But this will limit your search at certain level.but if one recognizes Imam in Batuni then He will bestow you with "BOL" in Batin. And with that one can acheive the Truth. For Example Mansoor-al-Hallaj, He was not from our Interpretation Of Faith (Tariqa).He was Sunni Muslim but he was Sufi (Mystic) and got the stage of Fana Fillah. In older time, In our tariqa, one had to do bandagi for 21 years without Bol and then Imam used to bestow with Sacred "BOL".

[kmaherali]

I have given a great deal of thought to this matter. I think that this is an example of a subject which we can deal with within the perspective of strength within diversity. First of all, we know that 'Bol' is not given to murids of backgrounds other than the 'Khojas' in a zaheri manner. I know of cases when the Imams have actually declined to give 'Bol' to non-khoja Ismailis. Does that mean that enlightenment is not available to them? Certainly not. It only means that this practice is not appropriate for them. What this tells us is that 'Ibaadat' using the practice of 'Bol' is not universal in our Tariqah. My understanding is that HazarImam has instituted this practice for the Khoja Ismailis to give them an extra boost and grace because of their excessive entanglement with materialism. What is universal is the remembrance of God. It has to be all the time and not restricted to the Baitul Khayal at 4.00am. Even in our Ginans 'Bol' is not mentioned. Only the name of God is, it can be interpreted as 'Bol'. Also we must be aware that remembrance is only one aspect of this search. It has to be complemented with knowledge and correct action. Our actions should reflect this remembrance and knowledge. You cannot be remembering God and behave unethically. It is a contradiction.

The above notwithstanding, I think if one takes 'Bol', then it is absolutely important that it is taken up very seriously and not as a matter of curiosity. The diversity in our jamat should give one the courage of not taking up the comitment if he/she is not ready to take it up. One must not take it up due to external pressure. Even the Imam gives that leverage. Taking up 'Bol' also means that we have also to satisfy the other duties viz, Dua and Dasond.

[shamsu]

BOL=SAT SHABD=NAAM=MANTRA


In Ginans it is mentioned "bole bole leejiyae piyu ne picchan.."

in Moti Venti it is "Sukritae shabdae odkho...."

Brahmprakash the whole ginan is about sat shabd.

There are granths which go into detail about this

Se Harfi "Hirday piju ko naam likh, aur akshar sab dhoy
Ahmed piju piju karata honi hoy so hoy"

there is a lot in our ginans about ruhaniyat.

Girbhavali, Buj niranjan are very interesting and extremely enlightening.

One thing I have been thinking about.
Shaitan was the best in ilm and in ibadaat.

Imam SMS Farman

KIM farman 125 page 280

"Dakhla tarike juvo, azazil potani bandagi thi saatma aasman sudhi pohchi gaiyo pun dharam na magaj ne te samjyo nahi. tene khudanu farman nahi manyu; te thi shaitan thaine jameen par padiyo....."

So I have been thinking it is the Farmanbardari of khuda (MHI) which is "dharam no magaj" and I think it is also the highest Ibadaat.

I think bandagi gives us the himmat to do the farman bardari of Mowla.

Shams

[kmaherali]

BOL=SAT SHABD=NAAM=MANTRA

So I have been thinking it is the Farmanbardari of khuda (MHI) which is "dharam no magaj" and I think it is also the highest Ibadaat.

I think bandagi gives us the himmat to do the farman bardari of Mowla.

Shams

Absolutely! As per Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah's Firman: "Nothing is more glorious than keeping love and affection for your Hazar Imam".

[msajwani]

I think in order for us to progress in Bandagi in the right direction, its important to take Ism-e-Aazam (BOL). For those who wish to progress in Bandagi have been given bol. But its certainly demanding and needs sincereity and punctuality o­n o­nes part.

[alinizar313]

I really feel sorry to read different point of views regarding bol. Especially in this matter, we should thoroughly study ginans and Farmans regarding bol before giving any comments because it is very series matter and any one can mislead. Off course here our intention is good but that might make us sinful.
I already mention partially in my perious post regarding this matter. Please read thoroghly "Braham Parkash" by Pir Shams where he explained the importance of "Bol" (Sat Shabd ). e.g.

Sat shabd hai guru Hamara, Taku lakaiy nayo sansaar

Surti Shabd ki unmooni laagi, jiyan janam maran ki kharbar bhangi
jiyan ingla pingla sukhamana nardi, lagi shabd soo unki tari

Surti Shabd ki gaanthi gulai, jiyoo jal me jal diya milai
ek samai dehi chhootai, Surti Shabd ki gaanthi toaiy ne tootaiy

shabd adol bhavin nahin dolaiy, shabd atol tahin kon tolaiy
shabd atha tha nahi awaiy, shabd apar par kon pavai.

And there are many more kadi regarding bol.

Again I will say that without bol, one can reach upto seventh Heaven ( not at Seventh Heaven). And Shaitan (Duniya ni Baaji, Nafs) will follow you upto seventh heaven. ( please read KIM part 1," Azazil potani bandagi thi saatma aasman soodhi pohnchi gayo pan dharam no magaz ne samjiyo nahi.....". It should be noted that when you reach at Seventh heaven, you will get freedom (Aazadi) and is also called "Mairaj". At this stage there will be no "Shaitan ni Baji" and from here Journey into the God starts. I think we should not discuss beyond this point over here. Mowla sahu ne jyot aapay Aameen.
I will quote one incident which my grandfather told me. At the time of Sultan Mohammed shah, One Ismaili has an Hindu friend who used to do meditation for many years. He requested his ismaili friend to tell Hazar Imam that I wanted to become Ismaili (Naturally by that he will be eligible for getting bol in future). Anyhow when the message was conveyed to Imam, Imam said that his ibadat is not enough to become an Ismaili. He has to do more ibadat in order to qualify as Murid. Then Mowla did the farman " Tamain Insan rup ma chho Khudawand taala e tamara uper gharin mehrbani keri chaiy ke temone satpanth deen ma janam aapyo chhaiy parn haib chaiy ke dhor ni misal janam chalyo jai chhaiy ane insan paachho khak ma daakhal thai jaiy chhaiy"

We know that murid other than khoja and Momin (Momna), does not get the bol, But Imam knows better about that. Getting the reference of non- khoja ismaili, not getting bol, we can't give our judjment that bol is not neccessary.

Be Humble, Honest and Generous.

[kmaherali]

We know that murid other than khoja and Momin (Momna), does not get the bol, But Imam knows better about that. Getting the reference of non- khoja ismaili, not getting bol, we can't give our judjment that bol is not neccessary.

Be Humble, Honest and Generous.

I did not say that BOL is not necessary, all I said is that it is not universal within our Tariqah. The very fact that Hazar Imam gives BOL means that it is necessary, otherwise he would not be wasting his time. All I said was that you should be ready to take that commitment seriously and not lightly. If you are not ready for it, it is OK not to take it until you are ready to make that kind of commitment. It is more sinful not to practice Ibaadat after taking the BOL. Also, if you decide not to make that commitment or are waiting for the opportunity to take it, than you can still participate in the search through Dua, Dasond, remembrance, reflection on Ginans and Firmans, Siratal Mustaqueem and Seva. I agree with you that only the Imam can decide whether this practice is appropriate for each individual.

[star_munir]

Some times I hears that Bandagi is neccessary while some times that baitul khayal is not obligatory???

[kmaherali]

Some times I hears that Bandagi is neccessary while some times that baitul khayal is not obligatory???

The literal meaning of Bandagi is serventhood. In that sense it encompasses all aspects of our faith viz, Dua, Dasond, Rememberance, Seva and Baitul Khayal. Baitul Khayal is one aspect of Bandagi or search. Yes Bandagi is necessary but Baitul Khayal is not obligatory if you have not taken Bol. If you have taken Bol then it is compulsory. Baitul-Khayal is not an end in itself but a means to an end and is one of the options for the search we have in our Tariqah.

As Hazar Imam has said, ours is a personal tradition and it is upto an individual to determine what action to take in his search. My opinion is that if an individual is regular in Dua and Dasond, then his/her soul will guide him/her to take the correct action consistent with the worldly responsiblities and commitments.

As I have mentioned before Baitul Khayal with Bol is not practised by non Khoja Ismailis, so if you do not have Bol, it does not mean you are shut out from enlightenment. There are other options available. In this respect there is strength in diversity.

[star_munir]

Thank you

[shamsu]

IMAM FARMANS SAY THAT BANDAGI IS A MATTER THAT IS ABOVE THIS WORLD.

WHEN WE APPLY OUR LIMITED INTELLECT TO DISCUSS BANDAGI WE ARE DOING AN INJUSTICE TO BANDAGI IN MY OPINION

HOW CAN WE DISCUSS THAT WHICH IS ABOVE US IN EVERY WAY.


SHAMS

[kmaherali]

IMAM FARMANS SAY THAT BANDAGI IS A MATTER THAT IS ABOVE THIS WORLD.

WHEN WE APPLY OUR LIMITED INTELLECT TO DISCUSS BANDAGI WE ARE DOING AN INJUSTICE TO BANDAGI IN MY OPINION

HOW CAN WE DISCUSS THAT WHICH IS ABOVE US IN EVERY WAY.


SHAMS

I think what you are refering to are the fruits of Bandagi which obviously are beyond human comprehension. What we are talking here are the different paths available to arrive at the fruits. We have to apply the intellect to determine what path is suitable for us and what is not. HazarImam does encourage us to use our intellect in the practice of our faith and not to practice it blindly. Intellect is an aspect of our faith.

[al-azhar]

I think it is upto every individual to take Bol when and only when they are ready to take the commitment. Still on this subject, can anyone tell me why so many people during Ibadat use their tasbihs. I have not had the courage to ask for the fear of insulting someone.

[st0necol]

I've Abu Ali Missionary Bait-ul-Khayal waiz. He said (I don't exactly remember the words so please forgive me for that) but he told MHI said that BOL is not compulsory for anyone...it'll only give you the Deedar you'll get after your death...so if you follow my all farmans....then wish to get BOL then it'll give u the deedar which u would get after your death..!

& He quoted Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah Farman that once you take the bol...& if you don't do it regularly...you do murder of my Imamat.

[rizu9]

I very much agree with kmaherali.....pir have talked in ginan about
Ajampiya Jaap.....which mean receiting jaap continoulsy at every breath
what i think is that you dont need recitation of god name but instead you need constant rememberance.....let me give you an example....you dont recite money money all day but your heart and your mind always thirst for money and you do what ever for money....same way your heart should have thirst for imam.....that is Ajampiya Jaap or i can say Bol.....
in his ginan pir say Piyu Piyu toa sav jug kare pan piyu naa pave koi....
so the ultimate essence is thirst for imam......if i am mistaking any one is free to correct me........

[zubair_mahamood]

I really feel sorry to read different point of views regarding bol. Especially in this matter, we should thoroughly study ginans and Farmans regarding bol before giving any comments because it is very series matter and any one can mislead. Off course here our intention is good but that might make us sinful.
I already mention partially in my perious post regarding this matter. Please read thoroghly "Braham Parkash" by Pir Shams where he explained the importance of "Bol" (Sat Shabd ). e.g.

Sat shabd hai guru Hamara, Taku lakaiy nayo sansaar

Surti Shabd ki unmooni laagi, jiyan janam maran ki kharbar bhangi
jiyan ingla pingla sukhamana nardi, lagi shabd soo unki tari

Surti Shabd ki gaanthi gulai, jiyoo jal me jal diya milai
ek samai dehi chhootai, Surti Shabd ki gaanthi toaiy ne tootaiy

shabd adol bhavin nahin dolaiy, shabd atol tahin kon tolaiy
shabd atha tha nahi awaiy, shabd apar par kon pavai.

And there are many more kadi regarding bol.

Again I will say that without bol, one can reach upto seventh Heaven ( not at Seventh Heaven). And Shaitan (Duniya ni Baaji, Nafs) will follow you upto seventh heaven. ( please read KIM part 1," Azazil potani bandagi thi saatma aasman soodhi pohnchi gayo pan dharam no magaz ne samjiyo nahi.....". It should be noted that when you reach at Seventh heaven, you will get freedom (Aazadi) and is also called "Mairaj". At this stage there will be no "Shaitan ni Baji" and from here Journey into the God starts. I think we should not discuss beyond this point over here. Mowla sahu ne jyot aapay Aameen.
I will quote one incident which my grandfather told me. At the time of Sultan Mohammed shah, One Ismaili has an Hindu friend who used to do meditation for many years. He requested his ismaili friend to tell Hazar Imam that I wanted to become Ismaili (Naturally by that he will be eligible for getting bol in future). Anyhow when the message was conveyed to Imam, Imam said that his ibadat is not enough to become an Ismaili. He has to do more ibadat in order to qualify as Murid. Then Mowla did the farman " Tamain Insan rup ma chho Khudawand taala e tamara uper gharin mehrbani keri chaiy ke temone satpanth deen ma janam aapyo chhaiy parn haib chaiy ke dhor ni misal janam chalyo jai chhaiy ane insan paachho khak ma daakhal thai jaiy chhaiy"

We know that murid other than khoja and Momin (Momna), does not get the bol, But Imam knows better about that. Getting the reference of non- khoja ismaili, not getting bol, we can't give our judjment that bol is not neccessary.

Be Humble, Honest and Generous.

Please can someone translate Gujarati into English….Thanks!

[kmaherali]

I just wanted to revisit this thread in light of MHI's 13th Dec Talika/Farman which states:

"Throughout the Jamat's history, including during the Fatimid times, a consistent feature of the Ismaili Tariqah has been the complementarity between practices that are specific to our Tariqah, and those that are part of the Sharia, common to all Muslims, albeit with denominational specificities. Examples of this are the historic co-existence between Namaz and Du'a, and the concept of private prayer and personal search, which has an important place in Islam, since it concerns the relationship of faith with life. It is in this light that, in Shia Ismaili Islam, the Imam-of-the-Time recognises a variety of prayers, tasbihs, Bait-ul-Khayal, Qaseedas, Ginans, by which an individual can submit to the Divine and protect himself or herself against the materialism of secular life, and the many other challenges of daily life."

It is quite clear from above that Bailt-ul-Khayal is one of the means of submitting to the Divine and protecting against materialism. It is not the only means of Ibadat as I have said earlier in this thread. If BOL is not available one can still use other means for enlightenment as indicated in the Farman above.

[kmaherali]

The most important of all things is that, you should have more faith in the descendants of Ali and Muhammad than your own mother, father, life and money. If you love the descendants of Muhammad and Ali then you shall have no fear in this world. This one Farman contains all the beauties and secrets of ibadat, bandagi and religion. (Dar es Salaam, February 3, 1937)

[kmaherali]

Baitul Khayal Majalis will be established in Chitral and Gilgit Baltistan

Talika Mubarak sent to Vazir Akbarali Karmali dated 18th Dec 2017

'The tradition of personal search for spiritual enlightenment has existed in our Tariqah from the time of Hazrat Ali. This practice has taken various forms and this search remains a fundamental notion of our faith.

On the occasion of my visit to Pakistan, I wish to inform my Jamat that I have decided to bestow the nawazish of establishing Baitul-Khayal Majalis in Chitral and GilgitBaltistan, which should be implemented at all major centres on 21st March, 2018, so that those murids who so desire, can participate in this practice of our Tariqah."

[shivaathervedi_3]

Did Pir Sadardin or Pir Hasan Kabiruddin gave BOL to their followers? There is no mention of word BOL in Ginans. Can any one give reference if it is used in Ginans?

[Admin]

Did Pir Sadardin or Pir Hasan Kabiruddin gave BOL to their followers? There is no mention of word BOL in Ginans. Can any one give reference if it is used in Ginans?

Where did you read that Pir Sadardin or Hasan Kabirdin gave BOL ?

Pir Sadardin and Hasan Kabirdin did not have any followers because they were teaching people to follow the Imam.

Ismailis follow the Imam. From the moment they follow someone else, their doctrine cease to be the doctrine of the Ismailis. This is why so many Satsang groups fail as someone in the group some day become the guru and other start following him. Recent cases have also shown this reality.

In their time they did not call it Bol, they call it Ajampiya Jamp in the subcontinent. And they also called it Sat Shabd... in the absence of Bol, the name "PIRSHAH" was used, it is still used among Gupti and other Ismailis and by many splinter branches such as the Imamshahis..

Of course Bol was given by the Imam and with his permission and instruction by other people, even today that is the case..

The Book of the Master and Disciple (Le Livre du Sage et du Disciple) published by prof. Corbin shows that in the old time the Imams used to also give Bol (THE Name, as it is called in the book)

[kmaherali]

In their time they did not call it Bol, they call it Ajampiya Jamp in the subcontinent. And they also called it Sat Shabd... in the absence of Bol, the name "PIRSHAH" was used, it is still used among Gupti and other Ismailis and by many splinter branches such as the Imamshahis..

Ajampia Jaap means silent remembrance which one realizes upon progress in meditation. It is not something that is given by anyone. There is a verse in Aarti which states:

eji ajampiyaa jaap munivare jaanniyaa
lakh choraasi jeev naa feraa taariyaa....aartee keeje.........2

O momins! A believer(munivar) who has known or realized the unspoken(ajampiyaa) word(jaap) - silent remembrance, will be free from the eighty four lakh cycles of rebirth.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23113

[kmaherali]

Did Pir Sadardin or Pir Hasan Kabiruddin gave BOL to their followers? There is no mention of word BOL in Ginans. Can any one give reference if it is used in Ginans?

I have not come across any mention of BOL explicitly in any Ginan. However, the notion of maintaining remembrance and devotion to the Imam in the form of the word - naam, sat shabd, pir shah etc, is very clear.

In my opinion BOL is not the only method of elevation of the soul within our Tariqah, otherwise MHI would have given BOL when establishing BUK in Hunza recently.

[shivaathervedi_3]

Did Pir Sadardin or Pir Hasan Kabiruddin gave BOL to their followers? There is no mention of word BOL in Ginans. Can any one give reference if it is used in Ginans?

I have not come across any mention of BOL explicitly in any Ginan. However, the notion of maintaining remembrance and devotion to the Imam in the form of the word - naam, sat shabd, pir shah etc, is very clear.

In my opinion BOL is not the only method of elevation of the soul within our Tariqah, otherwise MHI would have given BOL when establishing BUK in Hunza recently.

Let us analyze the words you mention. You mentioned Naam. Sat shabd, and Pir Shah.
For Naam Ginan says, PAHLO RE NAAM KHUDA JI KO LEJEI. Here naam itself is not a kind of word but Ginan says first recite name of Allah.

For Sat Shabd Ginan says, SAT SHABD HAI GURU HAMARA. Means Guru is the holy name. At times of Pir Shams murids didn't said Ya Shams,Ya Shams, or at time of Pir Sadardin followers didn't said Ya Sadardin, Ya Sadardin.

Past many decades Imam has not given PirShah as Bol according to my information.

In Hunza valley so far they don't have Bol. They recite Ya Allah, Ya Muhammad, Ya Ali. May be in near future Imam visits Hunza and bestow Bol or some missionary will give Bol representing Imam.