Have any imams ever mentioned that the Quran is time bound? As in certain rules in the Quran are only meant for the time it was written and not for now.
This would make a lot of sense. Hazir Imam guides us and gives us farmas relating to the current time period.
I've read the Quran I have at home and there are many unsettling things in it. There are parts that suggest violence and killing and I see how that may have been alright for in the warlike times of the past but I don't see how those passages are of a just nature in this current time period.
The Quran teaches us all the good morals which the imams have also taught in their farmans throughout time. I understand how most parts of the Quran are still relevant but there are some that seem to have no place in this society.
Why do we even need the Quran when we have the teachings of the imams? I wanted to hear some opinions and discussion on this topic.
Are parts of the Quran irrelevant in today's society
You have raised very pertinent issues relating to the Quran. MHI at present attaches great importance to the study of the Quran. In fact there is a department at the IIS for Quranic Studies. Quran is a unifying document binding all Muslims and defines our identity as Muslims. Of course there are issues with the text of the Quran and hence by itself it is inadequate as a source of guidance in our tariqah. It has to be be studied in a selective manner under the guidance of the Imam.
There have been discussions and articles on this subject in this forum under:
Doctrines --> Is Quran complete?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... n+complete
Doctrines --> QURAN-E-SHERIFF
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... n+complete
There have been discussions and articles on this subject in this forum under:
Doctrines --> Is Quran complete?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... n+complete
Doctrines --> QURAN-E-SHERIFF
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... n+complete
The two topics kmaherali linked to should be excellent resources on this matter. To briefly touch on the subject, let's realize the Qur'an isn't just it's zahir (apparent) meaning. Unlike most other Muslims, we Ismaili realize the Qur'an is a fountain of batin (hidden) messages, I think (only the Imam could say for certainty) the Qur'an 87:7 itself alludes to this when it says, "He knoweth the disclosed and that which still is hidden." You are right, the zahir messages in the Qur'an are timebound in our tariqah, this is a very strong core teaching of our faith. But the batin meanings are eternal, and forever, so like other Muslims, we hold strongly on to the Qur'an, but we hold it in a much higher sense of majesty.Sumi25 wrote:Have any imams ever mentioned that the Quran is time bound? As in certain rules in the Quran are only meant for the time it was written and not for now.
This would make a lot of sense. Hazir Imam guides us and gives us farmas relating to the current time period.
I've read the Quran I have at home and there are many unsettling things in it. There are parts that suggest violence and killing and I see how that may have been alright for in the warlike times of the past but I don't see how those passages are of a just nature in this current time period.
The Quran teaches us all the good morals which the imams have also taught in their farmans throughout time. I understand how most parts of the Quran are still relevant but there are some that seem to have no place in this society.
Why do we even need the Quran when we have the teachings of the imams? I wanted to hear some opinions and discussion on this topic.
It upsets me that some of our tariqah are put off from the Qur'an, but unfortunately we still have to deal with primarily Sunni and Twelver translations. None of these translations reveal the spring of infinite beauty the Qur'an is. Yusuf Ali is the closest we've had to a proper translation, it was done by a man from a Dawudi Bohra background, but his prose is lacking. Look at Surah al-Fatiha as rendered by a native English speaker, Pickthall:
1. In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Gracious and merciful. These two English words can't do justice to the amazing grace and mercy of a loving, all-encompassing lord, who as the Qur'an later states, is closer than our jugular vein. He is the everlasting manifest beauty, His love is unwavering.
2. Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the world;
He cherishes and sustains us, our bodies, our souls, our hearts, our love, our eyes, our every breath is His sustenance and supreme majesty.
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
God reiterates the beginning of the surah, his graciousness and his mercy. It is an amazing thing that he chooses this, and only this, to reiterate twice. These two words make us think of someone without much care giving pardon, but rather, we have the everlasting light of God in an eternal bond of love with us as a believer. This is extensively taught through the Ginans, which is possibly why SMS referred to the Ginans as last portions of the Qur'an.
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
This too, is expressed within the Ginans, our hearts adoration of God, and how we wish God to come into us in His unparalleled love.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace,
those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
Not only do we as a believer realize our state of submission (the literal meaning of the word 'Islam'), we wish to have God completely manifest into us, into our hearts and our very being. We can't stand the idea of being away from our beloved, so we ask Him to not leave us behind.
In a Salafi translation of the last verse, the part that says "those whose (portion) is not wrath" has Jews in parenthesis, and the part that says "to not leave us behind" has Christians in parenthesis! That is the sad state of Qur'anic translation we have to deal with today.
I'm happy you are reading the Qur'an, and I'm so sorry we don't have any true translation that truly shows its beauty and its love and its compassion to all of mankind. To be honest, I find that the Ginans, even in English, express things that current translations of the Qur'an aren't yet.
I was never sure what our tariqah's stance was on that. It makes a lot more sense for some parts to be timebound. It clears up a lot of stuff. Why do I never hear people talk about that? Is it a well known fact? Or is it because if this is too publicized it would cause a major rift amongst us and other muslims?enzuru wrote: You are right, the zahir messages in the Qur'an are timebound in our tariqah, this is a very strong core teaching of our faith. But the batin meanings are eternal, and forever, so like other Muslims, we hold strongly on to the Qur'an, but we hold it in a much higher sense of majesty.
The separation of the zahir and the batin is one of the major things that differentiates us from other Muslims, and yes, it has caused controversy with other Muslims.
All Muslim schools, whether they are Sunni or non-Ismaili Shi'a, seek to emulate the sunnah (practice) of the Prophet. To do this, they have created complex systems of interpreting hadith (traditions), and therefore have come with many contradicting stances (the four schools of law of Sunni Islam dictate not only four major styles of prayer, but even within these groups are subgroups!) Each hadith has a chain of narrators that go back to the Prophet, or to an Imam. Hadith science finds out if these narrators were liars, and if their narrations are confirmed by other narrations. Sunni and Shi'a don't accept each others narrators and narrations for various reasons, for example, one of the biggest narrators of Sunni hadith was Abu Huraira, who lived on the payroll of the anti-Shi'a Ummayad dynasty.
Non-Ismaili Islam's greatest challenge has been trying to discover historically what the Prophet himself practiced. As you know, most Twelver Shi'a Muslims follow Grand Ayatollahs. Grand Ayatollahs spend their entire lives learning how to historically deduce what the Prophet and the Twelve Imams historically did, and what they would do if they were alive today. There are over a dozen Grand Ayatollahs today, an Usuli Twelver Shi'a must figure out which of them is most knowledgeable (though because of the difficulty of this in recent times, fatwas let believers pick freely from a certain few).
We on the other hand, have a living Imam. And unlike other Muslims, we believe if the Prophet was alive today, he would not follow the same routine as he did 1400 years ago. We are the only Muslim group to truly believe that Islam is perfect and God's eternal final religion, because we understand that everything changes in context. Sometimes Muslims try to challenge us and say that the sunnah or law of the Prophet cannot change after him, but they are unable to cite any source in the Qur'an which says that, and in fact, the Qur'an says the opposite, because it notes that God changed dietary restrictions for the Jewish community as a form of punishment.
One should note that Imam SMS stated that we should not read the Qur'an, because it will confuse us. While I don't believe this statement is definitive, there are lots of reasons behind this. I believe Imam SMS also stated to Ismaili who wanted to mourn Imam Husayn's death during Muharram (today is actually the 2nd of Muharram), that they shouldn't mourn Husayn's death when they have the Imam there with them! Similarly in this situation, we don't need anything except the Imam, and it is the Ahl al-Bayt which ensure we stick to truth. If anything, the confusion of our other brothers and sisters in Islam about severe human rights issues (should an apostate be killed? should a homosexual be thrown over a cliff?) should be logical proof of this.
Just to extend the offer, if you have any questions about unsettling passages in the Qur'an, please feel free to post them here, so we could explain the historical context, and perhaps extend teachings using the Ginans as well, insha'Allah.
All Muslim schools, whether they are Sunni or non-Ismaili Shi'a, seek to emulate the sunnah (practice) of the Prophet. To do this, they have created complex systems of interpreting hadith (traditions), and therefore have come with many contradicting stances (the four schools of law of Sunni Islam dictate not only four major styles of prayer, but even within these groups are subgroups!) Each hadith has a chain of narrators that go back to the Prophet, or to an Imam. Hadith science finds out if these narrators were liars, and if their narrations are confirmed by other narrations. Sunni and Shi'a don't accept each others narrators and narrations for various reasons, for example, one of the biggest narrators of Sunni hadith was Abu Huraira, who lived on the payroll of the anti-Shi'a Ummayad dynasty.
Non-Ismaili Islam's greatest challenge has been trying to discover historically what the Prophet himself practiced. As you know, most Twelver Shi'a Muslims follow Grand Ayatollahs. Grand Ayatollahs spend their entire lives learning how to historically deduce what the Prophet and the Twelve Imams historically did, and what they would do if they were alive today. There are over a dozen Grand Ayatollahs today, an Usuli Twelver Shi'a must figure out which of them is most knowledgeable (though because of the difficulty of this in recent times, fatwas let believers pick freely from a certain few).
We on the other hand, have a living Imam. And unlike other Muslims, we believe if the Prophet was alive today, he would not follow the same routine as he did 1400 years ago. We are the only Muslim group to truly believe that Islam is perfect and God's eternal final religion, because we understand that everything changes in context. Sometimes Muslims try to challenge us and say that the sunnah or law of the Prophet cannot change after him, but they are unable to cite any source in the Qur'an which says that, and in fact, the Qur'an says the opposite, because it notes that God changed dietary restrictions for the Jewish community as a form of punishment.
One should note that Imam SMS stated that we should not read the Qur'an, because it will confuse us. While I don't believe this statement is definitive, there are lots of reasons behind this. I believe Imam SMS also stated to Ismaili who wanted to mourn Imam Husayn's death during Muharram (today is actually the 2nd of Muharram), that they shouldn't mourn Husayn's death when they have the Imam there with them! Similarly in this situation, we don't need anything except the Imam, and it is the Ahl al-Bayt which ensure we stick to truth. If anything, the confusion of our other brothers and sisters in Islam about severe human rights issues (should an apostate be killed? should a homosexual be thrown over a cliff?) should be logical proof of this.
Just to extend the offer, if you have any questions about unsettling passages in the Qur'an, please feel free to post them here, so we could explain the historical context, and perhaps extend teachings using the Ginans as well, insha'Allah.