What is greater Ibadaat or Bandagi

[shamsu]

What is greater Ibadaat or Bandagi?

[karimqazi]

I think ibadat is more important. Because the bandagi is done by the body and ibadat is done by the heart. The difference between ibadat and bandagi is like earth and sky, bandagi one has to do within a certain time period on the other hand ibadat can be done 24 hours a day (every second - paal paal) I think this will help you get your answer

[kmaherali]

In my opinion both have the same meaning.

Ibaadat is derived from the verb 'abada' - to serve and 'abd' - slave.

Bandagi is derived from the word 'banda' - slave.

Mowlana HazarImam in one of the Irshad said ".....You should carry your faith in your heart and in your soul. This is the meaning of Ibadat."

[shamsu]

Ibadaat is farmanbardari according to Pir Shahbuddin Shah in Risalat dar hakikati deen.

Bandagi is a form of Ibadaat.

Ibadaat(farmanbardari) is the only way to salvation.

Recognition of the Imam is paramount in order to do his farmanbardari.

Understanding the status of the Imam helps a person in becoming farmanbardar to him.


Shams

[kmaherali]

Bandagi is a form of Ibadaat.


Shams

I think what you are implying here is Baitul Khayal which is a facet of Ibadaat or Bandagi. Bandagi is Ibaadat.

[alinizar313]

In my opinion both have the same meaning.

Ibaadat is derived from the verb 'abada' - to serve and 'abd' - slave.

Bandagi is derived from the word 'banda' - slave.

Mowlana HazarImam in one of the Irshad said ".....You should carry your faith in your heart and in your soul. This is the meaning of Ibadat."

Ibaadat is not derived from the word 'abada' and 'abd' but it is derived from the word 'Ibaad' means to do perhaizgari ( I don't know the exact word in English but it means to prevent from bad deeds)

Ibaad (Verb) means to do perhaizgari
Aabid (Adjective) means Perhaizgar
Ibaadat (Noun) means Perhaizgari
Please do not mix it with abd which means slave and this words will be changed to abdul when it is used with noun or name. Normally when Muslims pick the name from the 99 names of Allah, they always use it with 'Abdul' or 'Ghulam'.Say Abdul Qayyum, Abdul Karim. But shia normally use it with 'Ali' or 'Hussain'.
Bandagi is the form of Ibadat. Bandagi is included in Ibadat but Ibadat is not included in Bandagi. Bandagi is just practice or rememberance or meditation. Simple is that Bandagi alone will not take you to your destination while Ibadat will take you to your destination.
"Azazil potaani bandagi thi saatma aasman soodhin ( Not 'Satma Aasman ooper') pohnchi gayo parn dharam naa magaj ne samji shakiyo nahin" KIM 1.
"Aamal ni bajamarin ( perhaizgari) te rooh ni mulaqat chhaiy" KIM 1.
I again would like to emphasis that bandagi and Ibadat both are not the same thing. We also misinterpret 'Seva' with 'Ibadat' and said that seva is Ibaadat therefore we do not need to do bandagi. This bandagi, seva, good deeds are all form of Ibaadat. It is seen due to unawareness that some people in khane after starting morning bandagi come out from hall and give wake-up call to people and engage in different work of JK thinking that it will count in bandagi . Off course it will count in Ibadat but you have to do bandagi as you make commitment. But if someone have to do 'seva' in that particular time then he has to consume that period of bandagi at some other time. Actually it is personal matter of each individual but I want to just clearify if someone has any misunderstanding. I will quote you one more incident just to know where we stand and what is our understanding about our faith. I entered the khane for morning bandagi at around 4:10 A.M and I amazed to see that the mukhi saheb of mandli giving dua to one sevadhari. Now you can see that here we are giving preference to dua over Bandagi and wasting that particular time of Bandagi and Mukhi is the teacher of Jamat. Mowla says "There is only one sure key of success and that is Ibadat".
Mowlana Rumi says ' The bag of bread is on your top and you still looking for bread'.

[kmaherali]

Bandagi is the form of Ibadat. Bandagi is included in Ibadat but Ibadat is not included in Bandagi. Bandagi is just practice or rememberance or meditation. Simple is that Bandagi alone will not take you to your destination while Ibadat will take you to your destination.

I think you are confusing Baitul Khayal with Bandagi. Baitul Khayal is an aspect of Bandagi. Bandagi means serventhood(Farman Bardari) and it involves all aspects of worship including Dua, Dasond, Seva, Search for knowledge and Baitul Khayal. In this sense Bandagi is Ibaadat. The former is derived from Indian language and the later is derived from Arabic. They have the same meaning.

[alinizar313]

Bandagi is the form of Ibadat. Bandagi is included in Ibadat but Ibadat is not included in Bandagi. Bandagi is just practice or rememberance or meditation. Simple is that Bandagi alone will not take you to your destination while Ibadat will take you to your destination.

I think you are confusing Baitul Khayal with Bandagi. Baitul Khayal is an aspect of Bandagi. Bandagi means serventhood(Farman Bardari) and it involves all aspects of worship including Dua, Dasond, Seva, Search for knowledge and Baitul Khayal. In this sense Bandagi is Ibaadat. The former is derived from Indian language and the later is derived from Arabic. They have the same meaning.

I think that you are making confusion . I can't give the quotation from the farman of baitul-khayal here but my suggestion to you is to read the firman carefully before giving any comment. The first thing that come into being was Baitul Khayal and everthing come from it and returned to it. And you are including baitul khayal in bandagi. Actually bandagi should be included in baitul khayal. Bandagi just help you to reach in Baitul khayal.
The meaning of baitul khayal is the house of thought. what we do in Bandagi just repeatation of name. What does it do? It just concentrate your thought to just one focal point and that is "He". And when you concentrate at one point then in everything you see your Lord and you will never do bad deeds, you will never hurt to his makhlooq because in everbody you will see his Noor or image. This is all nothing but the game of thought. Now listen to the following firman of S.M.S
"Tamaiy deevus maa bai kalak wichar kero kay Ruh kiyan thi aviyo anaiy paachho kiyan jeshaiy" means you think for two hours in a day that where from the soul came and where will it goes back.
"Jiyaraiy tamaiy newra baitha ho tiyaraiy temare khayal kervo joiye kai kkhaliq korn chhaiy anaiy makhlooq koorn chhaiy, Temaiy awa khayal kiyare parn kitha chhiy" means whenever you have spare time you should think that who is the creator and who is created. Have you ever think that? " Aa ane taiy kiyare parn ek thavana nethi kiyare parn ek nahi thae, Aaa kitab, namaz, roza ane bandagi ne chahe chhaiy, te umid azadi ni rakhe chhaiy; aa baiy watoo chhaiy benaiy na khayal juda juda chhaiy" mean "THIS" and "THAT" will never become one, never become united. "This" wants Book, Namaz,Fasting and Bandagi; And "That" needs desire to become Liberal (Aazadi. Freedom); These are two things, both have different thinking.
I think that above said firmans should clear the confusion about Bandagi, Ibadat and Baitul khayal.
"This" is shariat and "That" is Haqiqat.

[nargisk3]

THIS" and "THAT" will never become one, never become united. "This" wants Book, Namaz,Fasting and Bandagi; And "That" needs desire to become Liberal (Aazadi. Freedom); These are two things, both have different thinking.
I think that above said firmans should clear the confusion about Bandagi, Ibadat and Baitul khayal.
"This" is shariat and "That" is Haqiqat.

I'm somewhat confused about this- our goal is to become Haqiqati Momins, right?, and as said in that farman, being haqiqati means having the desire to be liberated, and acheive freedom. If the two can never be joined, then what is the purpose of doing Bandagi, fasting, reading namaz and the Book? Or is it like a step- to get to "THAT" (the Haqiqati part) you need to go through "THIS" (the shariati part) first? Hope this makes sense!

[shamsu]

THIS" and "THAT" will never become one, never become united. "This" wants Book, Namaz,Fasting and Bandagi; And "That" needs desire to become Liberal (Aazadi. Freedom); These are two things, both have different thinking.
I think that above said firmans should clear the confusion about Bandagi, Ibadat and Baitul khayal.
"This" is shariat and "That" is Haqiqat.

I'm somewhat confused about this- our goal is to become Haqiqati Momins, right?, and as said in that farman, being haqiqati means having the desire to be liberated, and acheive freedom. If the two can never be joined, then what is the purpose of doing Bandagi, fasting, reading namaz and the Book? Or is it like a step- to get to "THAT" (the Haqiqati part) you need to go through "THIS" (the shariati part) first? Hope this makes sense!

Ya Aly Madad Nargis,

Read the Farman translation again.

The two are called different and the reason they are different is because they have two different ways of thinking.

It doesnt mean you should quit the 4 things mentioned rather you should understand that those four things are a means to an end which is aazadi.

A lot of people make those 4 things an end in itself and thats why they are never going to become one with those who will attain aazadi.

The shariati person doesnt understand how his practice of faith is supposed to help him progress so he focuses on the act rather than the meaning.

The tariqati focuses on the meaning behind the act.

Haqiqati identifies with the purpose behind the meaning

Marifati is certain that he knows.

If you could read this farman everyday for a few years, you will notice more and more deeper meanings float to the surface.

these are all my opinions, pardon any mistakes.

Shams

[karimqazi]

Ya Ali Madad, To Everybody

What were are discussing here is which is greater ibadat or bandagi. When we talk about ibadat then you are talkin about something which is beyond your knowledge because Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah says in his farman "te ibadat kaverite thy che te kok kok ne kabar parache".

Ache ibadat bandagi sub se chupake kariye
kesi bande ko na janaye
apne kuda su daariye

This means you ibadat bandagi should be done secrecy and nobody should know you are doing it and you should fear god.

[kmaherali]

I think that you are making confusion . I can't give the quotation from the farman of baitul-khayal here but my suggestion to you is to read the firman carefully before giving any comment. The first thing that come into being was Baitul Khayal and everthing come from it and returned to it. And you are including baitul khayal in bandagi. Actually bandagi should be included in baitul khayal. Bandagi just help you to reach in Baitul khayal.
The meaning of baitul khayal is the house of thought. what we do in Bandagi just repeatation of name. What does it do? It just concentrate your thought to just one focal point and that is "He". And when you concentrate at one point then in everything you see your Lord and you will never do bad deeds, you will never hurt to his makhlooq because in everbody you will see his Noor or image. This is all nothing but the game of thought. Now listen to the following firman of S.M.S

The Baitul Khayal I am referring to and to which the Imam refers to is the 4-5 am which is given to khoja Ismailis and not to others. Offcourse contemplation in its broadest sense includes remembrance and reflection at all times which is Bandagi or Ibaadat. In my opinion this Baitul Khayal is given to Khojas for detachment from excessive materialism. It is not given to all Ismailis. If it is not universal, then it cannnot be that important. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah had said at one point that his Iranian Ismailis experienced Batuni Deedar without any physical contact or Bol.

I hope that clarifies the issue.

[shamsu]

K

please read BUK farmans before saying BUK cannot be that important.

BUK is central to our tariqa.

The non khoja Ismailies do get Bol when in Bandagi in a batuni manner.


Again plz read the farmans

Shams

[kmaherali]

K

please read BUK farmans before saying BUK cannot be that important.

BUK is central to our tariqa.

The non khoja Ismailies do get Bol when in Bandagi in a batuni manner.


Again plz read the farmans

Shams

Offcourse if one has taken BOL, BUK is extremely important. I am just trying to place BUK in the broader context of Ibaadat and Bandagi which as you have stated before is Farman Bardari. To me Farman Bardari is central. Everything else is a means towards it. BUK gives one himmat to be Farman Bardari.

Do you know that Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah adviced Bhagat Kara Rudaa to stop BUK. He told him, "Do you want to remain a slave for ever?" BUK is a means towards Farman Bardari. Not an end in itself. BUK like Dasond and Dua is an aspect of Bandagi or Ibaadat.

[kandani]

Shariat and the Haqiqat are two PARALLEL streams.

Tariqat is the BRIDGE that goes BETWEEN the Shariat and Haqiqat streams.

The Haqiqat stream will lead towards Marifat.

[kmaherali]

Shariat and the Haqiqat are two PARALLEL streams.<BR><BR>Tariqat is the BRIDGE that goes BETWEEN the Shariat and Haqiqat streams.<BR><BR>The Haqiqat stream will lead towards Marifat.

<BR><BR>Excellent way of putting it!&nbsp; Ibaadat or Bandagi would comprise the BRIDGE.

[shamsu]

YAM Kha

Could you cite some references for your parallel streams theory.

All I have is Rasoolillahs hadith where he says
Shariat is my word
Tariqat is my action
Haqiqat is my state (the state I am in)(In urdu Haal)
Marifat is my secret

Shams

[kandani]

SMS farman..which has been paraphrased to me by many ppl.

i think its farman 313.

[kmaherali]

YAM Kha

Could you cite some references for your parallel streams theory.

All I have is Rasoolillahs hadith where he says
Shariat is my word
Tariqat is my action
Haqiqat is my state (the state I am in)(In urdu Haal)
Marifat is my secret

Shams

This is what Al Muayadd Shirazi, the great Fatimid chief dai said about separation of Shariat and Haqiqat.

The holy Qur'an says, "God has let flow two bodies of water. One of them is sweet and drinkable and the other is saltish and bitter. He has put a partition barrier between the two which does not allow the waters to mix up." The 'sufees' who are men of truth and the men of purity interprest these two bodies of water as the 'shariat' and 'haqiqat'. They say that the external side of the religious laws, which are based on 'taqlid', a mere following, stand for a body of saltish water. 'Haqiqat' which is the unfolding of our religious laws in conformity with the dictates of our intellects and the aspirations of the soul is a river of sweet water. Though these rivers are close to each other, God has kept a barrier between the two and does not allow to overlay to each other. This is one explanation. Others say that one of these rivers stands for our dark, dingy variable life on each other and the second river stands for the holy regions, the world of angels. The barrier between the two is our earthly form. If we can rise above this earthly form then the soul will fly back to its Lord. God says in the holy Qur'an,"O peaceful soul, come back to your Lord satisfied with your lot. Mix up with my devotees and enter My 'jannat'."

[shamsu]

Thank you K

[kmaherali]

The notion of overcoming the earthly form and entering into an angelic world expressed by Al Muayyad Shirazi in one of the previous posts, finds resonance in the following verse of the Ginan "Aavaa Gur Nar Saami Saathe Sreviye".



ejee aavaa pa(n)j bhu vas karee,

chaare jug ni kalaa gur nee joelaa;

karoddee tetrees devataa naa melaa maa(n)he hoelaa...tam su(n)....3


By thus subduing the five passions, the Guide's marvellous power that endures through the four ages is seen, and one enters the company of the thirty-three crores of deities.

[kmaherali]

There is a very crucial farman in Kalam e Imam e Mubin, I need feed back on this farman of MSMS.
MSMS said," Mowla Ali farmaviyu(n) ke hu(n) Khuda ne jou(n) nahi tou ibadat pan(n) karu(n) nahi(n). Khuda ne je koi potana aa(n)khu(n) thi juay nahi tou, teni aa(n)khu(n) andhi chhey".

Translation; Mowla Ali said, (If) I do not see Khuda (Allah), I shall not do his ibadat. If no one sees Khuda (while bandagi)with his/her eyes is considered blind.

Urdu translation; Mowla Ali ne farmaya, Mai(n) Khuda ko na dekhu(n) tou uss ki ibadat bhi nahi karu(n). Jo apni aankhu(n) se Khuda ko na dekhey tou uss ki aa(n)khe(n) andhi hai(n).

Manjewri; 31 Dec, 1893.
Kalam e Imam e Mubin, printed by Ismailia Association for India, Bombay.
Published in 1950. Farman # 20. Page #61.

MSMS himself clarifies what he meant if you consider the staements after...

Murtaza Ali said: “If I don’t see God, I cannot practise ibadat either.”
If one cannot see God with his eyes, then his eyes are blind.
In this way, by making Farmans referring to Shariat and Tariqat, it has been explained to you. It means that if one cannot see God, then his bandgi is not acknowledged.
He, who does bandgi without recognizing God and Hazar Imam, has blind eyes because Hazar Imam is seated in manifest and yet he does not recognize Him.

There id a verse from the Ginan: Aapnu aap pichhanno http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22776 :

ejee murshid kaamal ku(n) nahi jaanne momano
sotaa jugame(n) fire jesaa a(n)dhaa.........................11

O momins! the ones who do not recognise the Perfect
Master (Teacher), wander in this age(world) as blind ones.

[kmaherali]

Farman on the meaning of Ibadat

I would like you to have it clear in your minds what is essential in our practice . It is not only Dua , it is not only presence in Jamatkhana ,
it is not only service to the Imam and to the Jamats , but it is also Ibadat . There are spiritual children who do not understand the meaning of Ibadat . What is important is that you should carry your Faith in your Heart and in your Soul ; this is the meaning of Ibadat .(Dacca, 1964)

[kmaherali]

How does that relate to the thread?

Already in this thread, there has been discussion that whether Imam is God or not. I wrote Imam is role model but was refuted. In this farman, Mowla Ali said
( as MSMS quoted ) if I don't see God, I shall not do His ibadat. My crucial question is God who, for whom Mowla Ali said If I shall not see Him with my eyes, I won't do His ibadat. It means there is superior God to whom Mowla Ali pointed. Or in other words Mowla Ali was demonstrating in front of follwers as a role model.

If you read the definition of Ibadat as per our present Imam, then it is very broad and is not confined to specific acts.

So if he cannot be specific about his acts, then how can he become a role model for the rest? Since the Imams have a different role than others, their acts will be different even though they would be performing Ibadat. For example one of the acts of Ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver Farmans. Do you think a murid can do so?

[ShamsB]

How does that relate to the thread?

Already in this thread, there has been discussion that whether Imam is God or not. I wrote Imam is role model but was refuted. In this farman, Mowla Ali said
( as MSMS quoted ) if I don't see God, I shall not do His ibadat. My crucial question is God who, for whom Mowla Ali said If I shall not see Him with my eyes, I won't do His ibadat. It means there is superior God to whom Mowla Ali pointed. Or in other words Mowla Ali was demonstrating in front of follwers as a role model.

If you read the definition of Ibadat as per our present Imam, then it is very broad and is not confined to specific acts.

So if he cannot be specific about his acts, then how can he become a role model for the rest? Since the Imams have a different role than others, their acts will be different even though they would be performing Ibadat. For example one of the acts of Ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver Farmans. Do you think a murid can do so?

It seems Mazharshah can - he has the franchise.
Not only can he make farmans he can contradict and interpret the farmans and shove them down other people's throats.
Seems like he missed the farman on pluralism.

Shams

[mazharshah]

There is a very crucial farman in Kalam e Imam e Mubin, I need feed back on this farman of MSMS.
MSMS said," Mowla Ali farmaviyu(n) ke hu(n) Khuda ne jou(n) nahi tou ibadat pan(n) karu(n) nahi(n). Khuda ne je koi potana aa(n)khu(n) thi juay nahi tou, teni aa(n)khu(n) andhi chhey".

Translation; Mowla Ali said, (If) I do not see Khuda (Allah), I shall not do his ibadat. If no one sees Khuda (while bandagi)with his/her eyes is considered blind.

Urdu translation; Mowla Ali ne farmaya, Mai(n) Khuda ko na dekhu(n) tou uss ki ibadat bhi nahi karu(n). Jo apni aankhu(n) se Khuda ko na dekhey tou uss ki aa(n)khe(n) andhi hai(n).

Manjewri; 31 Dec, 1893.
Kalam e Imam e Mubin, printed by Ismailia Association for India, Bombay.
Published in 1950. Farman # 20. Page #61.

MSMS himself clarifies what he meant if you consider the staements after...

Murtaza Ali said: “If I don’t see God, I cannot practise ibadat either.”
If one cannot see God with his eyes, then his eyes are blind.
In this way, by making Farmans referring to Shariat and Tariqat, it has been explained to you. It means that if one cannot see God, then his bandgi is not acknowledged.
He, who does bandgi without recognizing God and Hazar Imam, has blind eyes because Hazar Imam is seated in manifest and yet he does not recognize Him.

There id a verse from the Ginan: Aapnu aap pichhanno http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22776 :

ejee murshid kaamal ku(n) nahi jaanne momano
sotaa jugame(n) fire jesaa a(n)dhaa.........................11

O momins! the ones who do not recognise the Perfect
Master (Teacher), wander in this age(world) as blind ones.

My query is about the quotation of MSMS in KIM that Mowla Ali said," If I do not see Khuda (Allah), I shall not practice His ibadat". I asked, who is that superior God to which Mowla Ali pointed that if do not see Him, he will not do His ibadat. You wrote," it means that if one can not see God then his bandagi is not acknowledged". Poor momin in BK did bandagi for 15/20 years 24/7/365 has no reward because he could not see God.
KOUN JIYE GA TERI ZULF KE SER HOONEY TAK.
Regarding your quotation of ginan " AAPNU AAP PECHHANO MOMINO"
is an old quotation. 2500 years back Socrates said " know thy self ". It is an old sufi saying," KHUD RA SHANAAS TAA KHUDA RA SHANAASI". Right, first I have to recognize my self (shariyat), then recognize Imam as murshid kamil (tariqat), then recognize Rasul (haqiqat), and finally Allah (marifat). It is according to our Du'a sequence (part 2). Allah, Rasul, Imam, Momin.

[mazharshah]

Already in this thread, there has been discussion that whether Imam is God or not. I wrote Imam is role model but was refuted. In this farman, Mowla Ali said
( as MSMS quoted ) if I don't see God, I shall not do His ibadat. My crucial question is God who, for whom Mowla Ali said If I shall not see Him with my eyes, I won't do His ibadat. It means there is superior God to whom Mowla Ali pointed. Or in other words Mowla Ali was demonstrating in front of follwers as a role model.

If you read the definition of Ibadat as per our present Imam, then it is very broad and is not confined to specific acts.

So if he cannot be specific about his acts, then how can he become a role model for the rest? Since the Imams have a different role than others, their acts will be different even though they would be performing Ibadat. For example one of the acts of Ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver Farmans. Do you think a murid can do so?

It seems Mazharshah can - he has the franchise.
Not only can he make farmans he can contradict and interpret the farmans and shove them down other people's throats.
Seems like he missed the farman on pluralism.

Shams

Shams I run the religious franchise of Imam. I always request," Obey the farmans and Hidayat of present Imam until he makes any changes according to time".
KALEY BHOJAN JAMIYA TENA AAJEY SHA WAKHAN RE.
This poor man can not shove any interpretations down the throats of smart and highly educated persons trained at IIS.
Pluralism must be first visible in all segments of our community. We are only united at time of deedar. Imam leaves physically and pluralism disappear in our community.

[mazharshah]

How does that relate to the thread?

Already in this thread, there has been discussion that whether Imam is God or not. I wrote Imam is role model but was refuted. In this farman, Mowla Ali said
( as MSMS quoted ) if I don't see God, I shall not do His ibadat. My crucial question is God who, for whom Mowla Ali said If I shall not see Him with my eyes, I won't do His ibadat. It means there is superior God to whom Mowla Ali pointed. Or in other words Mowla Ali was demonstrating in front of follwers as a role model.

If you read the definition of Ibadat as per our present Imam, then it is very broad and is not confined to specific acts.

So if he cannot be specific about his acts, then how can he become a role model for the rest? Since the Imams have a different role than others, their acts will be different even though they would be performing Ibadat. For example one of the acts of Ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver Farmans. Do you think a murid can do so?

You wrote."one of the acts of ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver farman"
You mean making farman is the ibadat of Imam. Does he need it? Again question is, when Imam sees superior God and then he starts making farman, because Mowla Ali said," if I do not see God, I shall not practice His ibadat".

[agakhani_1]

Below are some sermans of Mowla Ali (s.a.)

"I am the sign of the Most Hight,
I am the Gnosis of Mysteries,
I am the Door of the Doors,
I am the First and the Last.
I am the Manifest and the Hidden.
I am the creator.
I give birth to the world
and I destroy it as i wish.
I am the face of God,
I am the Supreme Kalam."


And Below are some farmans of Imam Hasan Ali Shah & Ali Shah (s.a.) respectively:

Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farrman :



Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: One day prophet Mohd was sited with his holy family then bibi Fateha (s..a.) asked him: hai dad! please show me the Allah? then rasool told her that (look over there) that !Allah's hand is on Hussein !! at that moments H. Ali put his own hand on the head of Imam Hussein, then bibi Fatema told with joy "mowla Ali him self is the Allah - Allah sahi Allah. Mumbai Aasho sanwat date 25 sanwat 1928 , Date 25th year 1872.

Imam Hasan Ali Shah farman :


Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: When you say ALI ALLAH IN JAMAT KHANAS then you receive unlimited sawab for that but when you says (ALI SAHI ALLAH) then its sawab reches til the Arsh- e- Azim.

He, Jamats, I am the same Ali Sahi Allah! who is in presence of you right now, if any one who doubt about that he/she will go in hell!!

Jeth month date 1st, sanwat 1916: year 1860, place not found.


Imam Ali Shah told ( when he was in pir's joma) Farman :



Ali is the true Allah and if any one bring doubt on this then he will goes in hell. told Hasan Ali shah is the true Murtaza Ali - a true Allah, if you believe this then you will receive salvation.

Magshar sud Beej, sanwat 1930 year 1874 place Mumbai.

Farman " Imam Ali Shah told:


Imam Aga Ali Shah told, That person who does not know Mowla Murtaza Ali and prays after mullahs, he will not receives any benefits. we already showed you a true path whether to believe it or not its totally up to you!! MOWLA MURTAZA ALI IS THE KHUDAWIND AALMIN, if any one doubt about this then he is kafar.

I think these is enough for Mr. Bahurupi but if he wants more then I have plenty farmans on hand Remember this I have not still touch SMS's farmans on Ali is the Allah! yet

[Admin]

Please do not transform each and every thread into an Ali Allah debate. Thanks

Admin