Relation between Eid & Chandraat

[dannyy]

Hi,

I have a little confusion, can somebody clarify my doubts?

In Pakistan, We celebrate Eid ul fitr with the whole nation on the day announced by ruet-e-hilal committee. However it seldom happens that our chandrat does not fall on the same day as of ruet-e-hilal committee..
Now As per norms , one should celebrate Eid the very next day of chandrat...so lot of times it has happened that we have performed the chandrat majlis and next day the eid is not celebrated , instead we continue with fasting..
is this the right practice that we are following????

[kmaherali]

Now As per norms , one should celebrate Eid the very next day of chandrat...so lot of times it has happened that we have performed the chandrat majlis and next day the eid is not celebrated , instead we continue with fasting..
is this the right practice that we are following????

Our fasts are not confined to the month of Ramadan only, we should continue to fast for 365 days....

[dannyy]

Hi kmaherali,

Thank you for the reply.

I beleive due to my limited knowledge am confused with so many questions surrounding the earlier thought, lemme try to elaborate more.

1) I understand that once you perform the chandrat activities , the very next day Eid should be celebrated but in our case it does not happen. Why do we have to wait till the time sunni mawlvis announce EID? When we are independent in performing chandrat then why cant we celebrate EID.

2) If 365 days fasting means "Nafs pe kaboo" then why do we fast on the shukarwari beej, why we dont eat, drink (in other words Zahiri Fasting) on shukarwari beej. why double standards for Ramadan fasting and shukar wari beej fasting.

3) if point no 2 holds true then Ramadan fasting does not have any significance in our faith? then why do we celebrate EID?
If Ramadan does not have any significance then why to beleive in lailatul qadar and all that..

4) we celebrate Eid as per Sunni tariqa but dont consider Ramadan fasting as must to perform for celebrating Eid. Why is that? we are different in so many other things then Why this Eid still is celebrated in Zahiri manner.

5) Understand from Quranic verses that 3 times prayers prescribed on daily basis, and its "Salat" which is everywhere mentioned in Quran , so we Perform "Dua" three times a day. My mind completely accepts this but the confusing factor is when there is no such thing as Namaz then why to perform "Eid Namaz", "Namaz-e-Janaza" etc.. Why we do not have "Eid Dua" or "Dua-e- Janaza".

6) Jumma Prayers is mentioned in Quran , Why we do not perform Jumma Prayers?

[kmaherali]

1) I understand that once you perform the chandrat activities , the very next day Eid should be celebrated but in our case it does not happen. Why do we have to wait till the time sunni mawlvis announce EID? When we are independent in performing chandrat then why cant we celebrate EID.?

In my opinion it has to do with the practicalities of situations. Usually in Muslim countries we have public holidays for Eid and these are defined by the majority Sunni and hence we allign our festivities with them so that we can celebrate it in a holiday which is convenient for everyone.

2) If 365 days fasting means "Nafs pe kaboo" then why do we fast on the shukarwari beej, why we dont eat, drink (in other words Zahiri Fasting) on shukarwari beej. why double standards for Ramadan fasting and shukar wari beej fasting..

I think we must keep foremost in our minds that our faith is interpreted by the Imam according to the current situation. He defines what is compulsory and what is not. There are matters he leaves for each to interprete according to circumstances. For example he tells us to be regular in attendance in JK. It is upto individuals to decide what is regular according to personal circumstances. In the same manner I think Ramadan is a personal matter and it is upto individuals to decide how to interpret the fast consistently...

There has also been discussion on fasting under:

Customs and Traditions -> Fasting

3) if point no 2 holds true then Ramadan fasting does not have any significance in our faith? then why do we celebrate EID?
If Ramadan does not have any significance then why to beleive in lailatul qadar and all that....

Fasting is NOT the essence of Ramadan. The essence is that Allah's first revelation came down to us in the month of Ramadan and therefore this month is considered as a holy month and it is marked by piety and reflection and fasting is one of the forms of piety and purification. Hence we need to observe the important occasions on the month such as the lail tul qadr.

5) Understand from Quranic verses that 3 times prayers prescribed on daily basis, and its "Salat" which is everywhere mentioned in Quran , so we Perform "Dua" three times a day. My mind completely accepts this but the confusing factor is when there is no such thing as Namaz then why to perform "Eid Namaz", "Namaz-e-Janaza" etc.. Why we do not have "Eid Dua" or "Dua-e- Janaza".

In my opinion Eid festivals are occasions of solidarity with other Muslims, hence we adopt the formal prayer common for all Muslims which is the Namaz.

6) Jumma Prayers is mentioned in Quran , Why we do not perform Jumma Prayers?

Friday is an important day in our calender. We mark it differently than others. We have gat paat on that day for example. Individuals are free to go and say their Jumma Prayers with other Muslims if they have the time and inclination to do so, in fact there are Ismailis who perform Jumma Prayers as well but it is not compulsory....

The following is an article on Eid which will shed more light and hopefully answer your questions. I have highlighted sentences which are of particular significance....
http://sun.ismaili.net/re/page37.html

'Eid-al-Fitr' is one of the most important festivals in Islam which is celebrated by Muslims all over the world with great joy and festivities.

'Eid' means 'a recurring happiness or festivity' and 'fitr' means 'to begin'. 'Iftar' means'the breaking of the fast and it is from this that the name 'Eid-al-Fitr seems to have been taken which means 'festival of the breaking of the fast'.

When our Holy Prophet Muhammad arrived in Medina, he found that the people of the city celebrated many festivals. He abolished these pagan observances and told the Muslims that the two Eids were prescribed for them as festivals, one being 'Eid-al-Fitr' and the other 'Eid-al-Adha'.

'Eid-al-Fitr' falls on the first day of Shawwal, the 10th month of the Muslim calendar,and marks the end of fasting observed by the Muslims during the month of Ramadhan. It is a well known fact that while the Holy Qur'an was revealed piecemeal during a period of twenty-three years, the first revelation came to our Prophet in the month of Ramadhan, and it is therefore that the month which witnessed the greatest spiritual experience of the Holy Prophet was considered to be the most suitable month for the spiritual discipline of the Muslim community. The Holy Qur'an says : "The month of Ramadhan is that in which the Qur'an was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of guidance and the Criterion (of right and wrong). So whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein." (Sura Bakr-Ayat 185) Fasting was prescribed as an act of self-denial with a view to attaining moral and spiritual upliftment. The Qur'an and the Prophet have laid special stress on this. A Momin fasts 360 days in a year

The Qur'an says:"O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard against evil." (Sura Bakr-Ayat 183)

The Holy Prophet said:"Whoever does not give up lying and acting falsely, Allah does not stand in need of his giving up food and drink."
(Bukhari-Ch.30 - No.

On the meaning and essence of fasting Hazrat Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah said in his Farman:

"Haqiqati Momins do not fast only in the month of Ramadhan. For them fasting is for all the 360 days. In the 360 days when not a single evil act is committed and not a single person is hurt, that is fasting.' (Kalam-e-Imam-i-Mubin - Part 1)

The observance of Eid is an expression of joy at having fulfilled God's command of discipline and piety. It is also a day of thanks-giving to God for the guidance He bestowed upon mankind through His last Prophet.

While 'Eid-al-Fib' is an occasion for joy and happiness it is certainly not an occasion for over-eating, frivolity or for the pursuit of pleasure. The joy on this occasion is the spiritual joy of fulfillment and it is in this moment that Muslims assemble to offer Eid prayer which is said any time after sunrise and before noon. As they stand in the presence of their Maker and fall prostrate before Him in thanksgiving, they exhibit the fraternity and brotherhood which is the important and significant aspect of Islam.

Eid, the festival of the joy of spiritual fulfillment is a reminder to the believers to spend in the way of God, for it is only through right spending that petty can be attained. The Holy Qur'an says :

"You will not attain unto piety until you spend of that which you love. And whatsoever you spend, Allah is aware thereof." (Sura Al-i-Imran - Ayat 91)

Eid-a-Fitr also occasions an opportunity for the believers to forget all grudges and ill-feelings towards one another and start afresh in the brotherly spirit that Islam preaches.

The underlying message of this happy occasion is that the believers who fulfill God's command of discipline and piety, and who abstain from evil and unlawful pleasures are always blessed with the joy which surpasses all the worldly and material joys. The acts of piety and religious discipline are not to be restricted to only a few days every year but are
to be performed regularly throughout ones life.

[dannyy]

Hi Kmaherali,


Thank you so much for the clarifications. I think a lot of questions in my mind is answered.

1) Just to check with you, is there any MHI's farman regarding Eid Namaz or Namaz-e-Janaza? who has prescribed for us the tariqa for Eid Namaz as I feel its a lil different from that of Sunni mulims tariqa.
Does our tariqa Eid Namaz is the same as what prophet muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught us.?

2) Understand from other topics on this forum, that earlier ismailies also use to pray 5 times a day and then from 22nd imam we were set free from Namaz and Fasting (Is this true)?

3) Is there any historical proof that our prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught us to pray 5 times a day. Just wondering that if Allah has clearly mentioned in Quran , to pray 3 times a day then how could Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) ask people to pray 5 times a day.

[kmaherali]

1) Just to check with you, is there any MHI's farman regarding Eid Namaz or Namaz-e-Janaza? who has prescribed for us the tariqa for Eid Namaz as I feel its a lil different from that of Sunni mulims tariqa.
Does our tariqa Eid Namaz is the same as what prophet muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught us.?

All our rites and ceremonies including Eid Namaz are prescribed by our Pirs. MHI himself recited and led Eid Namaz when he was a child. We are a different interpretation from the Sunni one and there is no reason that we should have the same Namaz. We follow what is taught by the present Pir/Imam and not anchor ourselves in the past.

2) Understand from other topics on this forum, that earlier ismailies also use to pray 5 times a day and then from 22nd imam we were set free from Namaz and Fasting (Is this true)?

Yes it is true. The Bohoras who have retained their Fatimid practices still have the Namaz.

3) Is there any historical proof that our prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught us to pray 5 times a day. Just wondering that if Allah has clearly mentioned in Quran , to pray 3 times a day then how could Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) ask people to pray 5 times a day.

Those who take guidance from the Sunna of the Prophet claim that the Prophet prayed 5 times. I think the number of formal prayers is of less significance than the concept of prayer itself.

[haroon_adel]

Hi Kmaherali,


Thank you so much for the clarifications. I think a lot of questions in my mind is answered.

1) Just to check with you, is there any MHI's farman regarding Eid Namaz or Namaz-e-Janaza? who has prescribed for us the tariqa for Eid Namaz as I feel its a lil different from that of Sunni mulims tariqa.
Does our tariqa Eid Namaz is the same as what prophet muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught us.?

2) Understand from other topics on this forum, that earlier ismailies also use to pray 5 times a day and then from 22nd imam we were set free from Namaz and Fasting (Is this true)?

3) Is there any historical proof that our prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) taught us to pray 5 times a day. Just wondering that if Allah has clearly mentioned in Quran , to pray 3 times a day then how could Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) ask people to pray 5 times a day.

Dannyy,

These are pretty good questions, and I am pretty sure there's answers to your questions. I will try to give you my openions, others can give you more specific answers.

As you already know, we are always following Hazar Imam's Firman at all times, whether it was 100 years ago, or 1000. We take all our guidance from MHI. If what you say

...and then from 22nd imam we were set free from Namaz and Fasting ...

is true. Then, since we follow Hazar Imam's Firman, then it should be true for us.

I believe--and please correct me if I am wrong--when Ismaili's at that particular time were told to break-Fast, was a couple of reasons. At that particular time, Ismaili's were in a very difficult circumstances, (battle) and was difficult to keep up with (Zahiri) Fasting. The second thing, which is more important is the actual meaning of Fasting. As kmaherali stated very clearly, that we should be "fast"ing all year long (accoring to what we believe what fasting is--I am sure you know what this means), and not only during the holly month of Ramadan.

As for the praying 5 times vs 3 times. I come again to my original point. Since, we are following MHI's Firman, then we shouldn't follow what was being followed some 1000 years back, MHI interpretes those concepts in todays world. Since world is constantly changing and evolving, things which were true years and years back may not be valid in todays society.

I gave you an other example:

Do you know what "Maswak" is? According to Sunni relegion, it is "Sunna'a" or Act of Mohammad (P.B.U.H.). You might already know that. But basically it's a peace of wood that was used at that period of time to clean teeth and it was used as what we use today for tooth brush and tooth past.

The point is that the world changed from that time until today. We no longer use "Maswak" but we use tooth brush and past to keep our dent clear. Like wise, MHI interprets Qura'an according to the society which we live currently.

As for Namaz-e-Edit, Namaz-e-Jenaza and etc..., I hope someone else could comment, I myself don't have enough information in this regard.

Regards,

Haroon.

[dannyy]

Hi,

Thanks for the knowledge sharing...

Ok one more to go related to "Chandrat".

As we know that "Chandrat" majalis falls on different dates for different countries. Now When we think of Lailatul qadar, that will also fall on different dates based on which country a person is residing. The revelation was completed in this night and that was also for the whole universe so why do we have different lailatul qadar for different countries (Assuming only for ismailies)?? is there any MHI's farman related to this issue or its just my stupid thinking...))??

[shak00]

As these questions have always confused us (Fasting etc) and everbody has different answers, then why has the matter not been directed to Hazar Imam by an Alwaez etc - either should we? or shouldn't we?. This would clear the whole matter. After all Imam SMS did state that you all bring matters of worldly things to me but no one approaches me with matters of the Din. Hum se Din ka sawaal pooche (Ask me about the matters of the Din).

Or is it, that if Fasting is made compulsary by HI, that the majority would not be able to keep it? As with the Shukrawari Beej, which to my understanding, majority cannot keep anyway (enjoy their Chai with Tepla) .

The actions associated with Fasting for 365 days of the Year (Not Lying or cheating, Being Honest, Good deeds, Not doing Bud Nazari etc) is necessary in our faith anyway (whether fasting or not) to be a good Ismaili Muslim (As advised by our Pirs).

Those Ismailis who fast the so called Zaheri fast experience the hunger and thirst by not eating or drinking as well as doing good deeds etc during the month of Ramadhan (which is such a beautiful feeling), and above all we have the guidance of our beloved Hazar Imam, who encourages the practise of Traditions in Islam.

Also, Eid Al Fitr Is to do with the breaking of the Fast.

Also I believe that Zahir and Batin is just to do with Hazar Imam interpreting those ayahs of the Quran (according to the times) which are hidden and not clear for us i.e. 'Ulil Amr' or 'light'- which has a lot of meanings to other sects of Muslims. The Qu'ran has stories of prophets, basic guidance for mankind and hidden meanings which can be interpreted by Hazar Imam and practised by us to lead a righteous life according to the modern times. After all the Farmans by Hazar Imam are not in Batin and is plain and clear to understand.

Islam belongs to Imam e Zaman, being the Ulil Amr, and can make any changes whatsoever without any questioning. Just as the other Muslim branches obeyed their leaders (no names mentioned) when they made changes to the Din, who even had no authority to do so.

Although 5 times prayers was practised by the Prophet (PBUH) during his times, it is not stated in the Qu'ran to pray 5 times, which makes it clear for us by Hazar Imam to pray 3 times. This is just my thought...

So i just wanted to know where is the Batin of Fasting mentioned?

I know this has been discussed deeply in other topics, but just my thoughts on the matter.