Has the Imam/s ever made firmans on abortion?

[AsadALLAH]

Just very curious if any of our 49 Imams ever made firmans o&shy;n abortion before?<BR>

[Admin]

There is a Farman of Mowlana Shah Karim that the mother is responsible for her child from the moment of CONCEPTION.

Also in ginans, "Bar Hatiya", Abortion is amongst the 5 things that God does not forgive.

This is not a judgmental position, of course. Just some source worth analysing.

Admin

[kmaherali]

There is a related thread in this forum which might be of interest.

Current Issues --> Abortion in Ismaili Religion

[79378503]

There is a Farman of Mowlana Shah Karim that the mother is responsible for her child from the moment of CONCEPTION.

Also in ginans, "Bar Hatiya", Abortion is amongst the 5 things that God does not forgive.

This is not a judgmental position, of course. Just some source worth analysing.

Admin

What are the four other things that Allah does not forgive?

[Admin]

I think Murder, Suicide, Mistreating parents, Slender [Ninda] are the other 4 things which are not forgiven.

[ShamsB]

There is a Farman of Mowlana Shah Karim that the mother is responsible for her child from the moment of CONCEPTION.

Also in ginans, "Bar Hatiya", Abortion is amongst the 5 things that God does not forgive.

This is not a judgmental position, of course. Just some source worth analysing.

Admin

You're referring to Gunah - e - Kabira..there are about 10-12 of them.

Shams

[kmaherali]

What are the four other things that Allah does not forgive?

The following are the verses from Saloko Nano which allude to the five Hathyaas. The five Hathyaas mentioned are Par Ninda(slander), aall(false accusation), par gavan(illicit intercourse), aap hathyaa(suicide) and baall(abortion). What is important to note is that they are indeed grave!

satgur kahere: karam to sarave utare
ane na utare par nee(n)daa ne aall
par gavan na utare
na utare aap hatyaa ne baall re.................39

The True Guide says: The entire burden of sins is reducible, except the sin of backbiting and false accusation, illicit(sexual) relationships and sin of suicide and killing of children (abortion).

satgur kahere: paa(n)ch hatyaa to paapnnee
jeen seer lakhee lelaatt aa-e
te neet utthee gatmaa(n)he jaae
to-e jeev amar na thaay re......................40

The True Guide says: The five killers(of the soul) are sinful. Upon whoever's head these are written, will receive kicks. Even if this person gets up everyday and goes to the gat(J.K.), his soul will not attain immortality.

[salimlalani]

I think Bal Hatiya goes further deeper, we cannot conclude that as a Abortion, Pls. ponder on it.

[kmaherali]

I think Bal Hatiya goes further deeper, we cannot conclude that as a Abortion, Pls. ponder on it.

Baal means a small child and hence it's immediate meaning is killing of small children and by extension abortion.

Can you provide insights into what the deeper meaning could be?

[prince_visram]

I think Bal Hatiya goes further deeper, we cannot conclude that as a Abortion, Pls. ponder on it.

Baal means a small child and hence it's immediate meaning is killing of small children and by extension abortion.

Can you provide insights into what the deeper meaning could be?

I also agree that it would mean abortion, and also, thanks to kmaherali`s translation of the Ginan BAVAN GHAATTEE we can also see and consider small children as abortion..

"Ghaattee 32

kaache maase baallak paaddnaar maatte ghaattee.

32nd Pitfall

Pitfall for the ones who perform abortion. "

Bavan Ghaattee: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=817