Need some help...

[searcher]

YAM,

I was having a discussion with a Sunni work colleague regarding Sufism and he said the most absurd thing. He thinks Sufism is a bastardized form of Islam without having any connection to the "original" Islam, which obviously is the Quran and the Sunnah, according to him. He said that the Holy Prophet NEVER performed any bandagi or any form of dhikr after the first revelation of Quran in the cave of Hira. This totally floored me because that is just inceivable to us Ismailis. Even the night ascention was only a spiritual journey.

As our faith is the purest form of Sufism with the Holy Noor Himself leading us towards Himself, I just couldn't resist challenging his ideas. He's asking for my sources and this is where I am stumpped. I need help in locating authentic material from Sunni sources so that I can disprove his crazy notions.

[kmaherali]

YAM,

I would recommend you read "The Mystics of Islam" by Reynold A. Nicholson, who trannslated the Mathnavi of Mowlana Rumi into English. In regard to the relationship of Sufism to mainstream Islam, the following excerpt taken from the introduction of the book states:

The Koran

"Let us return for a moment to the Koran, that infallible touchstone by which every Mohammedan theory and practice must be proved. Are any germs of mysticism to be found there? The Koran, as I have said, starts with the notion of Allah, the One, Eternal, and Almighty God, far above human feelings and aspirations — the Lord of His slaves, not the Father of His children; a judge meting out stern justice to sinners, and extending His mercy only to those who avert His wrath by repentance, humility, and unceasing works of devotion; a God of fear rather than of love.
This is one side, and certainly the most prominent side, of Mohammed's teaching; but while he set an impossible gulf between the world and Allah, his deeper instinct craved a direct revelation from God to the soul. There are no contradictions in the logic of feeling. Mohammed, who had in him something of the mystic, felt God both as far and near, both as transcendent and immanent. In the latter aspect, Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth, a Being who works in the world and in the soul of man.

"If My servants ask you about about Me, lo, I am near" (Kor. 2:182); "We (God) are nearer to him than his own neck-vein" (50:15); "And in the earth are signs to those of real faith, and in yourselves. What! Do you not see?" (51:20-21).

It was a long time ere they saw. The Moslem consciousness, haunted by terrible visions of the wrath to come, slowly and painfully awoke to the significance of those liberating ideas.

The verses which I have quoted do not stand alone, and however unfavourable to mysticism the Koran as a whole may be, I cannot assent to the view that it supplies no basis for a mystical interpretation of Islam. This was worked out in detail by the Sufis, who dealt with the Koran in very much the same way as Philo treated the Pentateuch. But they would not have succeeded so thoroughly in bringing over the mass of religious Moslems to their side unless the champions of orthodoxy had set about constructing a system of scholastic philosophy that reduced the divine nature to a purely formal, changeless, and absolute unity, a bare will devoid of all affections and emotions, a tremendous and incalculable power with which no human creature could have any communion or personal intercourse whatsoever. That is the God of Mohammedan theology. That was the alternative to Sufism. Therefore, "all thinking, religious Moslems are mystics", as Professor D B Macdonald, one of our best authorities on the subject, has remarked. And he adds: "All, too, are pantheists, but some do not know it."

The relation of individual Sufis to Islam varies from more or less entire conformity to a merely nominal profession of belief in Allah and His Prophet. While the Koran and the Traditions are generally acknowledged to be the unalterable standard of religious truth, this acknowledgement does not include the recognition of any external authority which shall decide what is orthodox and what is heretical. Creeds and catechisms count for nothing in the Sufi's estimation. Why should he concern himself with these when he possesses a doctrine derived immediately from God? As he reads the Koran with studious meditation and rapt attention, lo, hidden meanings — infinite, inexhaustible — of the Holy Word flash upon his inward eye. This is what the Sufis call istinbat, a sort of intuitive deduction; the mysterious inflow of divinely revealed knowledge into hearts made pure by repentance and filled with the thought of God, and the outflow of that knowledge upon the interpreting tongue.

Naturally, the doctrines elicited by means of istinbat do not agree very well either with Mohammedan theology or with each other, but the discord is easily explained. Theologians, who interpret the letter, cannot be expected to reach the same conclusions as mystics, who interpret the spirit; and if both classes differ amongst themselves, that is a merciful dispensation of divine wisdom, since theological controversy serves to extinguish religious error, while the variety of mystical truth corresponds to the manifold degrees and modes of mystical experience."

The entire book can be accessed online at:

http://www.ardue.org.uk/library/book14/intro.html#koran

I highly recommend anyone interested in Sufism to read it.

[searcher]

Thanks Kmaherali!

I'll go through the book.

[kmaherali]

Thanks Kmaherali!

I'll go through the book.

You are welcome! I am sure you will find it very rewarding. Nicholson has managed to extract the cream of over twenty years of his intensive and extensive scholarship in this subject in a simple readable work - a masterpiece and a magnificient work of art.

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad,

YAM,

I was having a discussion with a Sunni work colleague regarding Sufism and he said the most absurd thing. He thinks Sufism is a bastardized form of Islam without having any connection to the "original" Islam, which obviously is the Quran and the Sunnah, according to him. He said that the Holy Prophet NEVER performed any bandagi or any form of dhikr after the first revelation of Quran in the cave of Hira. This totally floored me because that is just inceivable to us Ismailis. Even the night ascention was only a spiritual journey.

As our faith is the purest form of Sufism with the Holy Noor Himself leading us towards Himself, I just couldn't resist challenging his ideas. He's asking for my sources and this is where I am stumpped. I need help in locating authentic material from Sunni sources so that I can disprove his crazy notions.

They are many perceptions of Islam; what your friend says is not Sunnis believe…. Just ask him since how many years he didn’t go to Mosque for Namaz!

According to Sunnah Bandage or Zikar (Remembering Allah) is not only performing prayer but it also includes following Allah’s Instructions in day to day life… zikar or bandage are categories into two 1) Willing/known 2) unwilling/unknown… and then future sub categorized….

1) Willing/ Known: In this category a person knows what he/she is doing is for himself and Allah. Like Dua, Giving Dasoon, Fasting, obeying Imam’s Farmans etc…. we have clear knowledge that we are following Allah.

2) Unwilling/Unknown: In this category a person doesn’t have knowledge that he/she is remembering Allah or is in state zikar of Allah. An example of this is your discussion with your friend where you are not doing Bandage but you are talking of Allah… For your side it’s just a discussion but from Allah side you’re remembering Allah, your talking of Prophet which also means bandage / ibadath…. Well I feel when I get online It reminds me of Allah, I have Ismaili.net as my Homepage each time I refresh webpage I see Mowla Picture or read some quotations. In Sunnah it’s believed that if you start your day by Allah’s name whatever you do will be included as Ibadath because you’re starting it by Allah’s name…. Now don’t think doing prohibited things by Allah’s Name will be Ibadath…

Sometime when I m angry with Mowla I don’t do Dua (don’t think wrong! When kids are angry with parents they don’t eat or don’t talk or do something to convince them… I don’t communicate with Mowla), in this situation I have seen I can’t sleep if I sleep I don’t know my mind starts Dua while I m asleep then I continue and automatically my anger goes away, It feel nothing has happened between me and Mowla…. In general Many times when I wake up in the morning I wake up in a situation where I am in 2nd part of Dua / I am in Dua in some part …. In both situations I don’t do Dua willingly or have no knowledge what’s going on. I think it has to do something with zahir and batine… zubair’s zahir is angry with Mowla but not batine, batine is close to Mowla and always tries bridge gap.

I think you don’t need to worry if he says he doesn’t do Bandage or Zakir because he himself doesn’t have knowledge when he does bandage…. And if he say Prophet Muhammad Never performed any bandagi or any kind of zikar then ask him after the revelation of first versa in The Cave of Hira who has interpreted Quran to Believer…. Without any Zikar(discussion) how Islam spread and People accept Prophet Muhammad. Ask him when he starts Namaz does he say Allah ho Akbar (Allah is Great)………….. In Namaz doesn’t he discuss (zikarr) Allah with himself…. If he means to say Bandage means waking up before sun rise and praying then ask him what’s Tahajad Namaz which is a Namaz only performed before Sun Rise and ask him what Tarabi Namaz is? (a special Namaz which Sunnis perform during Ramadan)….

Ask him about the incident where a disbeliever wanted to assassinate Prophet Muhammad… its interesting incident (I don’t remember name and number so don’t ask me but it’s in Books). A disbeliever wanted to assassinate Prophet Muhammad; He saw that Prophet was never alone so he didn’t get chance. He then plans to kill Prophet when Prophet and his companions were in bandage as there eyes are close. He brings a weapon with him for bandage and sit near to Prophet, He keeps checking other whether there eyes are close or not, when he sees Prophet’s eyes are close he try to make his move… on seeing this prophet ask him what are u doing he replies I m doing zikir then Prophet Muhammad touches his heart by his hand, that man falls on legs of Prophet Muhammad asks forgiveness and becomes Muslim (because when Prophet touched his heart he made it pure)… Before he thought when Prophet’s eyes are close he can’t see anything well after he realises he doesn’t need open his eyes to see things.

And still if your friend says Prophet Muhammad didn’t do any Zikar / bandage then write me… I have been to sunni school and have read almost everything about prophet’s life Allhamdulila… I will tell you books where he can find proofs!

YAM,

I would recommend you read "The Mystics of Islam" by Reynold A. Nicholson, who trannslated the Mathnavi of Mowlana Rumi into English. In regard to the relationship of Sufism to mainstream Islam, the following excerpt taken from the introduction of the book states:.....................................The entire book can be accessed online at:

http://www.ardue.org.uk/library/book14/intro.html#koran

I highly recommend anyone interested in Sufism to read it.

Thanks karim I would read it whenever I find time… even I don’t have idea of Sufism…

I want to know about Mowlan Rumi’s life… if anything online or if you have any soft copy cause I m interested in knowing about his life as I am looking information on someone who had some spiritual experience and then accepted Imam or Pir… like Mowlan Rumi.. as it can be a help for my Quest! Thanks

Zubair Mahamood

[kmaherali]

I want to know about Mowlan Rumi’s life… if anything online or if you have any soft copy cause I m interested in knowing about his life as I am looking information on someone who had some spiritual experience and then accepted Imam or Pir… like Mowlan Rumi.. as it can be a help for my Quest! Thanks

Zubair Mahamood

The following is an excerpt from Jonathan Star's book "RUMI In The Arms of the Beloved" which contains the highlight of the life of Mowlana Rumi which was his encounter and relationship with Shamsh, and some other aspects of Sufism. A detailed version of his life is given in Annemarie Schimmel's "I Am Wind You Are Fire". This year is 800th anniversay of his birth which was in Afghanistan.

The Meeting of Two Oceans

By all accounts, Rumi lived a grand and illustrious life—he was a respected teacher, a master of Sufi lore, the head of a university in the Anatolian capital city of Konya (in present-day Turkey). At the age of thirty-four he claimed hundreds of disciples, the king being one of them. And what is so remarkable and unforgettable about Rumi's life is that in one moment all this changed—the moment he met a wandering darvish named Shams-e Tabriz.

There are several accounts of this historic meeting. One version says that during a lecture of Rumi's, Shams came in and dumped all of Rumi's books—one handwritten by his own father—into a pool of water. Rumi thought the books were destroyed, but Shams retrieved them, volume by volume, intact. Another version says that at a wave of Shams' hand, Rumi's books were engulfed in flames and burned to ashes. Shams then put his hand in the ashes and pulled out the books. (A story much like the first.) A third account says that Rumi was riding on a mule through a square in the center of Konya. A crowd of eager students walked by his feet. Suddenly a strange figure dressed in black fur approached Rumi, grabbed hold of his mule's bridle, and said: "O scholar of infinite knowledge, who was greater, Muhammad or Bayazid of Bestam?" This seemed like an absurd question since, in all of Islam, Muhammad was held supreme among all the prophets. Rumi replied, "How can you ask such a question?—No one can compare with Muhammad." "O then," Shams asked, "why did Muhammad say, 'We have not known Thee, O God, as thou should be known,' whereas Bayazid said, 'Glory unto me! I know the full glory of God'?"

With this one simple question—and with the piercing gaze of Shams' eyes—Rumi's entire view of reality changed. The question was merely an excuse. Shams' imparting of an inner awakening is what shattered Rumi's world. The truths and assumptions upon which Rumi based his whole life crumbled. This same story is told symbolically in the first two accounts, whereby Rumi's books—representing all his acquired intellectual knowledge, including the knowledge given to him by his father—are destroyed, and then miraculously retrieved or "resurrected" by Shams. The books coming from the ashes, created anew by Shams, represent the replacing of Rumi's book-learned knowledge (and his lofty regard for such knowledge) with divine knowledge and the direct experience of God.

According to an embellished version of this third account, after Shams' question, Rumi entered a mystical state of ego annihilation that the Sufis call fana. When he regained consciousness, he looked at Shams
with utter amazement, realizing that this was no ordinary darvish, but the Beloved himself in human form. From that moment on, Rumi's life was never again the same. He took Shams to live in his home and the two men were inseparable; they spent hours a day together, sometimes isolating themselves for long periods to pray and fast in divine communion with God.

About this meeting, Rumi's son Sultan Walad wrote: "After meeting Shams, my father danced all day and sang all night. He had been a scholar—he became a poet. He had been an ascetic—he became drunk with love."

Rumi was totally lost in this newfound love that his master revealed, and all his great attainments were blossoming through that love. Every day was a miracle, a new birth for Rumi's soul. He had found the Beloved, he had finally been shown the glory of his own soul.

Then, suddenly, eighteen months after Shams entered Rumi's life, he was gone. He returned some time later, for a brief period, and then he was gone again forever. Some accounts say that Shams left in the middle of the night and that Rumi wandered in search of him for two years. (Perhaps a symbolic and romantic portrayal of the lover in search of his missing Beloved.) Other accounts report that Shams was murdered by Rumi's jealous disciples (symbolizing how one's desires and lower tendencies can destroy the thing held most dear).

Without Shams, Rumi found himself in a state of utter and incurable despair; and his whole life thereafter became one of longing and divine remembrance. Rumi's emptiness was that of a person who has just lost a husband or a wife, or a dear friend. Rumi's story shows us that the longing and emptiness we feel for a lost loved one is only a reflection, a hologram, of the longing we feel for God; it is the longing we feel to become whole again, the longing to return to the root from which we were cut. (Rumi uses the metaphor of a reed cut from a reed bed and then made into a flute— which becomes a symbol of a human separated from its source, the Beloved. And as the reed flute wails all day, telling about its separation from the reed bed, so Rumi wails all day telling about being separated from his Beloved.)

It was Shams' disappearance, however, that ignited the fire of longing within Rumi; and it was this very longing that brought him the glorious union with the Beloved. Years later Rumi wrote: "It is the burn of the heart that I want. It is this burning which is everything—more precious than a worldly empire—because it calls God secretly in the night."

The Path of Love

In Rumi's poetry, love is the soul of the universe, and this soul knows no bounds—it embraces all people, all countries, and all religions. The goal of Sufism is to know love in all of its glorious forms; and every prophet, every practice, and every form of worship that leads toward love is, in essence, Sufism. The great Sufi philosopher Ibn Arabi writes:

My heart holds within it every form,
it contains a pasture for gazelles,
a monastery for Christian monks. There is a temple for idol-worshippers,
a holy shrine for pilgrims; There is the table of the Torah,
and the Book of the Koran.
I follow the religion of Love
and go whichever way His camel leads me. This is the true faith; This is the true religion.

Just as the Sufis honored all traditions, seeing each as a path leading to the highest truth, they also honored the prophets of these traditions. They looked upon each for guidance and inspiration. Many Sufis, including the great Mansur al-Hallaj, idealized Jesus as the embodiment of perfect love; they built their philosophy around him, rather than the Prophet. The renowned Sufi saint Junayd gives this prescription for Sufi practice based on the lives of the prophets:

Sufism is founded on the eight qualities exemplified by the eight prophets: The generosity of Abraham, who was willing to sacrifice his son. The surrender of Ishmael, who submitted to the command of God and gave up his dear life. The patience of Job, who endured the affliction of worms and the jealousy of the Merciful. The mystery of Zacharias, to whom God said, "Thou shah not speak unto men for three days save by sign." The solitude of John, who was a stranger in his own country and an alien to his own kind. The detachment of Jesus, who was so removed from worldly things that he kept only a cup and a comb—the cup he threw away when he saw a man drinking in the palms of his hand, and the comb likewise when he saw another man using his fingers instead of a comb. The wearing of wool by Moses, whose garment was woolen. And the poverty of Muhammad, to whom God sent the key of all treasures that are upon the face of the earth.

The supreme vision of Sufism is to see God everywhere, to view every part of creation as a reflection of God's glory. The poet Jami writes: "Every branch and leaf and fruit reveals some aspect of God's perfection: the cypress gives hint of His majesty; the rose gives tidings of His beauty." Every atom was created by God so that man could know the highest truth and learn the secrets of love.

Runii's poetry has the magical ability to show us this truth and to unlock love's precious secrets. Within the folds of his words we gain entrance to a hidden chamber; we hear whispers that are ancient, yet intimate; we oehold the endless love story between the individual soul and God. Like looking into a polished mirror, or like being in the presence of a holy being, reading Rumi's poetry shows us ourselves and our state, but more than that, it shows us the boundless glory of what we can become.

*Shams Tabriz was one of the sons of Imam Alauddin Mohammed (26th Imam)

[amiralirawji]

visit google .com

click images

search Mowlana Rumi

click web

very interesting . . .

[amiralirawji]

go to google.com
search Mowlana Jalaludin Rumi

[Firukurji]

<B><SPAN class=mw-headline>Basic beliefs</SPAN><P>The essence of Being/Truth/God is devoid of every form and quality, and hence unmanifested, yet it is inseparable from every form and phenomenon either material or spiritual. It is often understood to imply that every phenomenon is an aspect of Truth and at the same time attribution of existence to it is false. The chief aim of all Sufis then is to let go of all notions of <A title=Dualism href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism#In ... duality</A>, therefore the individual <A title="Self (philosophy)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_%28ph ... 9">self</A> also, and realize the divine <A title=Tawh&#299;d href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawh%C4%AB ... P><P>Sufis teach in personal groups, as the interaction of the master is considered necessary for the growth of the pupil. They make extensive use of <A title=Parable href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable">parable</A>, <A title=Allegory href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory">allegory</A>, and <A title=Metaphor href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor">metaphor</A>, and it is held by Sufis that meaning can o&shy;nly be reached through a process of seeking the truth, and knowledge of o&shy;neself. Although philosophies vary between different Sufi orders, Sufism as a whole is primarily concerned with direct personal experience, and as such may be compared to various forms of <A title=Mysticism href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism">mysticism</A> such as <A title=Hesychasm href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm">Hesychasm</A>, <A title="Zen Buddhism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_Buddhism">Zen Buddhism</A> and <A title=Gnosticism href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism">Gnosticism</A> and <A title="Christian mysticism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ ... >Christian mysticism</A>.</P><P>A significant part of <A title="Persian literature" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_li ... e">Persian literature</A> comes from the Sufis, who created books of <A title=Poetry href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetry">poetry</A> (which include for example the <I><A class=new title="Walled Garden of Truth" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... it">Walled Garden of Truth</A></I>, <I><A title="Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubaiyat_o ... ">Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam</A></I>, the <I><A title="Conference of the Birds" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference ... Conference of the Birds</A></I> and the <I><A title=Masnavi href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masnavi">Masnavi</A></I>), all of which contain teachings of the Sufis.<BR><BR><SPAN class=mw-headline>History of Sufism</SPAN></P><DL><DD><DIV class=noprint><I>Main article: <A title="History of Sufism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sufism">History of Sufism</A></I></DIV></DD></DL><P>The history of Sufism can be divided into the following principal periods:</P><P><A id=Origins name=Origins></A></P><H3><SPAN class=editsection>[<A title="Edit section: Origins" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 4">edit</A>]</SPAN> <SPAN class=mw-headline>Origins</SPAN></H3><P>Sufism is generally reckoned to originate from muslims around <A title=Basra href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basra">Basra</A> which is in today's Iraq. Almost all traditional Sufi schools (orders) trace their "chains of transmission" back to the Prophet via his cousin and son-in-law Imam <A title="Ali ibn Abi Talib" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_ibn_Abi_Talib">Ali ibn Abi Talib</A> except the <A title=Naqshbandi href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqshbandi">Naqshbandi</A> order which traces its origin to caliph <A title="Abu Bakr" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr">Abu Bakr</A>. From their point of view, the esoteric teaching was given to those who had the capacity to contain the direct experiential gnosis of God, and then passed o&shy;n from teacher to student through the centuries.</P><P>Some <A title=Orientalist href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalis ... ntalist</A> scholars believe that Sufism was essentially the result of Islam evolving in a more mystic direction. For example, <A title="Annemarie Schimmel" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annemarie_ ... >Annemarie Schimmel</A> proposes that Sufism in its early stages of development meant nothing but the interiorization of Islam. And <A title="Louis Massignon" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Massignon">Louis Massignon</A> states: "It is from the Qur’an, constantly recited, meditated, and experienced, that Sufism proceeded, in its origin and its development."<SUP class=reference id=_ref-1><A title="" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism#_no ... ></P><P><A id=The_great_masters_of_Sufism name=The_great_masters_of_Sufism></A></P><H3><SPAN class=editsection>[<A title="Edit section: The great masters of Sufism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 5">edit</A>]</SPAN> <SPAN class=mw-headline>The great masters of Sufism</SPAN></H3><P>The Sufis dispersed throughout the Middle East, particularly in the areas previously under Byzantine influence and control. This period was characterised by the practice of an apprentice (<A title=Murid href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murid">murid</A>) placing himself under the spiritual direction of a Master (<A title=Shaykh href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaykh">shaykh</A> or <A title="Pir (Sufism)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir_%28Sufism%29">pir</A>).</P><P>Schools were developed, concerning themselves with the topics of mystical experience, education of the heart to rid itself of baser instincts, the love of God, and approaching God through progressive stages (<A title=Maqaam href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maqaam">maqaam</A>) and states (<A title=Haal href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haal">haal</A>). The schools were formed by reformers who felt their core values and manners had disappeared in a society marked by material prosperity that they saw as eroding the spiritual life.</P><P><A title="Uwais al-Qarni" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwais_al-Qarni">Uwais al-Qarni</A>, Harrm Bin Hian, <A title="Hasan Ul-Basri" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Ul-Basri">Hasan Ul-Basri</A> and Sayid Ibn Ul Mussib are regarded as the first mystics among the "Taabi'een" in Islam. <A title="Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabi%27a_a ... ">Rabia</A> was a female Sufi and known for her love and passion for God. <A title=Junayd href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junayd">Junayd</A> was among the first theorist of Sufism; he concerned himself with ‘<A title=Fanaa href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanaa">fanaa</A>’ and ‘<A title=Baqaa href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baqaa">baqaa</A>’, the state of <A title=Annihilation href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilati ... ilating</A> the self in the presence of the divine, accompanied by clarity concerning <A title="World (theology)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_%28t ... worldly</A> phenomena.</P><P><A id=Formalization_of_philosophies_of_Sufism name=Formalization_of_philosophies_of_Sufism></A></P><H3><SPAN class=editsection>[<A title="Edit section: Formalization of philosophies of Sufism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 6">edit</A>]</SPAN> <SPAN class=mw-headline>Formalization of philosophies of Sufism</SPAN></H3><P><A title="Al Ghazali" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Ghazali">Al Ghazali</A>'s treatises, the "Reconstruction of Religious Sciences" and the "Alchemy of Happiness," argued that Sufism originated from the Qur'an making it compatible with mainstream Islamic thought and theology. It was around 1000 <A title="Common Era" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era">CE</A> that the early Sufi literature, in the form of manuals, treatises, discourses and poetry, became the source of Sufi thinking and meditations.</P><DIV class="thumb tright"><DIV class=thumbinner style="WIDTH: 172px"></DIV></DIV><P><A id=Propagation_of_Sufism name=Propagation_of_Sufism></A></P><H3><SPAN class=editsection>[<A title="Edit section: Propagation of Sufism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 7">edit</A>]</SPAN> <SPAN class=mw-headline>Propagation of Sufism</SPAN></H3><P>Sufism, during 1200-1500 CE, experienced an era of increased activity in various parts of the Islamic world. This period is considered as the "Classical Period" or the "Golden Age" of Sufism. Lodges and <A title=Hostel href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostel">hospices</A> soon became not o&shy;nly places to house Sufi students, but also places for practising Sufis and other mystics to stay and retreat.</P><P>The propagation of Sufism started from its origins in Baghdad in <A title=Shiah href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiah">Shiah</A> <A title=Majority href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority">majority</A> areas, such as <A title=Iraq href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq">Iraq</A> and <A title="Greater Khorasan" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Kh ... horasan</A>, and spread to <A title="Persian Empire" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire">Persia</A>, <A title=Pakistan href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan">Pakistan</A>, <A title=India href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India">India</A>, <A title="North Africa" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa">North Africa</A>, and <A title="Muslim Spain" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Spain">Muslim Spain</A>. There were tests of conciliation between Sufism and the other Islamic sciences (sharia, fiqh, etc.), as well as the beginning of the Sufi brotherhoods (turuq).</P><P>One of the first orders to originate was the Yasawi order, named after Khwajah <A title="Ahmed Yesevi" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Yesevi">Ahmed Yesevi</A> in modern <A title=Kazakhstan href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan">Kazakhstan</A>. The <A title=Kubrawiya href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubrawiya">Kubrawiya</A> order, originating in Central Asia, was named after <A title="Najmeddin Kubra" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najmeddin_Kubra">Najmeddin Kubra</A>, known as the "saint-producing shaykh" , since a number of his disciples became shaykhs. The most prominent Sufi master of this era is <A title="Abdul Qadir Jilani" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadir_Jilani">Abdul Qadir Jilani</A>, the founder of the <A title=Qadiriyyah href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadiriyyah">Qadiriyyah</A> order in Iraq. Others included <A title="Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_al-D ... i">Rumi</A>, founder of the <A title=Mevlevi href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevlevi">Mevlevi</A> order in Turkey, <A title="Shihabuddin Yahya as-Suhrawardi" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shihabuddi ... Sahabuddin Suharwardi</A> in Iran, <A title="Moinuddin Chishti" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moinuddin_ ... >Moinuddin Chishti</A> and <A class=new title="Makhdoom Ashraf" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... ">Makhdoom Ashraf</A> in India.</P><DIV class="thumb tright"><DIV class=thumbinner style="WIDTH: 172px"></DIV></DIV><DIV class="thumb tright"><DIV class=thumbinner style="WIDTH: 172px"></DIV></DIV><P><A id=Sufism.27s_role_in_the_expansion_of_Islam name=Sufism.27s_role_in_the_expansion_of_Islam></A></P><H3><SPAN class=editsection>[<A title="Edit section: Sufism's role in the expansion of Islam" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 8">edit</A>]</SPAN> <SPAN class=mw-headline>Sufism's role in the expansion of Islam</SPAN></H3><P>Sufism has an important historical role in the expansion of Islam and the conversion of Christians in particular. Sufism has underpinned the majority of conversions to Islam since the 10th century. The most striking examples are to be found o&shy;n the borders of the ottoman empire.</P><P>The Devshirme system, where Christian children were confiscated from the western edges of the ottoman empire, and raised as Janissary Soldiers (the Guard element or "core" of the ottoman army, which progressively became a sort of Foreign Legion ), was underpinned by the adherence of the Janissary corps to Sufi Islam. This more flexible form of Islam was well suited to the first generation muslims of the Janissaries. Several hundred thousand converts to Islam passed through this system.</P><P>Another striking and more direct Sufic impact was o&shy;n Chechnya and Daghestan. Primarily Animist but also Christian at the beginning of the 18th century, Chechnya and Daghestan were converted to Naqshbandi Sufi Islam and by the middle of the 19th century were fighting their annexation into the Russian Empire (that wanted to link up its two territories of Russia and Georgia) under the banner of a holy islamic war. Imam Shamil, along with all the other of their leaders at this time, was Supreme Naqshbandi Imam of Chechnya and Daghestan.</P><P>In these contexts, Sufism often acts as a longterm gateway to more literal forms of Islam. Chechnya for example is now edging towards Wahhibite Islam.</P></B>

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad,

There are several accounts of this historic meeting. One version says that during a lecture of Rumi's, Shams came in and dumped all of Rumi's books—one handwritten by his own father—into a pool of water. Rumi thought the books were destroyed, but Shams retrieved them, volume by volume, intact. Another version says that at a wave of Shams' hand, Rumi's books were engulfed in flames and burned to ashes. Shams then put his hand in the ashes and pulled out the books. (A story much like the first.) A third account says that Rumi was riding on a mule through a square in the center of Konya. A crowd of eager students walked by his feet. Suddenly a strange figure dressed in black fur approached Rumi, grabbed hold of his mule's bridle, and said: "O scholar of infinite knowledge, who was greater, Muhammad or Bayazid of Bestam?" This seemed like an absurd question since, in all of Islam, Muhammad was held supreme among all the prophets. Rumi replied, "How can you ask such a question?—No one can compare with Muhammad." "O then," Shams asked, "why did Muhammad say, 'We have not known Thee, O God, as thou should be known,' whereas Bayazid said, 'Glory unto me! I know the full glory of God'?"

Thanks Karim

The question shams asked Rumi who was greater, Muhammad or Bayazid of Bestam?

Q: If I m not mistaken its same yazid of karbala?
I think Yazid of Karabla was night….

And to Firukurji! I didn’t understand anything from your posting can you please repost or edit it.

Thank you

<B><SPAN class=mw-headline>Basic beliefs</SPAN><P>The essence of Being/Truth/God is devoid of every form and quality, and hence unmanifested, yet it is inseparable from every form and phenomenon either material or spiritual. It is often understood to imply that every phenomenon is an aspect of Truth and at the same time attribution of existence to it is false. The chief aim of all Sufis then is to let go of all notions of <A title=Dualism href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism#In ... duality</A>, therefore the individual <.......................................a for example is now edging towards Wahhibite Islam.</P></B>

Zubair Mahamood

[kmaherali]

The question shams asked Rumi who was greater, Muhammad or Bayazid of Bestam?

Q: If I m not mistaken its same yazid of karbala?
I think Yazid of Karabla was night….

You are welcome Zubair! Bayazid was one of the great Sufis. The point Shams is making is that one can experience momentary bursts of ecstacy, but they do not necessarily comprise the ultimate fullness of God experience.

There is an interesting poem by Mowlana Rumi about the ecstacy of Bayazid which expresses another facet of Sufism.

Bestami

That magnificent dervish, Bayazid Bestami, came to his disciples and said,
"I am God."
It was night, and he was drunk with his ecstasy.
"There is no God but me. You should worship me."

At dawn, when he had returned to normal,
they came and told him what he'd said.
"If I say that again,
bring your knives and plunge them into me. God
is beyond the body, and I am in this body.
Kill me when I say that."

Each student then sharpened
his knife, and again Bayazid drank the God-Wine.
The sweet dessert-knowing came. The Inner Dawn
snuffed his candle. Reason, like a timid advisor,
faded to a far corner as the Sun-Sultan
entered Bayazid.

Pure spirit spoke through him.
Bayazid was not there. The "he" of his personality
dissolved. Like the Turk who spoke fluent Arabic,
then came to, and didn't know a word.

The Light of God
poured into the empty Bayazid and became words.

Muhammed did not dictate the Qur'an. God did.
The mystic osprey opened its wings in Bayazid
and soared.
"Inside my robe
there is nothing but God. How long will you keep looking elsewhere!"

The disciples drew their knifes and slashed out
like assassins, but as they stabbed at their Sheikh,
they did not cut Bayazid. They cut themselves.

There was no mark on that Adept,
but the students were bleeding and dying.

Those who somewhat held back, respecting their Teacher,
had only lightly wounded themselves.

A selfless One
disappears into Existence and is safe there.
He becomes a mirror. If you spit at it,
you spit at your own face.

If you see an ugly face there, it's yours.
If you see Jesus and Mary, they're you.

Bayazid became nothing,
that clear and that empty.

A saint puts your image before you.
When I reach this point, I have to close my lips.

Those of you who are love-drunk on the edge of the roof,
sit down, or climb down. Every moment spent in Union
with the Beloved is a dangerous delight,
like standing on a roof-edge.

Be afraid up there,
of losing that connection, and don't tell anybody about it. Keep your secret.
(Mathnawi, IV, 2102-2148)

[zubair_mahamood]

You are welcome Zubair! Bayazid was one of the great Sufis. The point Shams is making is that one can experience momentary bursts of ecstacy, but they do not necessarily comprise the ultimate fullness of God experience.

Ya Ali Madaad,

Even I was thinking in what sense Shams was comparing Prophet Muhammad cause as per me Prophetic Noor is One but have different role to play as per spiritual level of the people of time…..

I agree with Shams point of view where man's vision ends Allah doesn’t' even starts! The reality is beyond our knowledge. Pir Shams started from the point where Prophet Muhammad left Rumi that’s y I always say He known us better then us Spiritually or Non Spiritually… I think “The Meeting of two Oceans” has deep meanings…. The burn of the heart what Rumi is mentions which calls God secretly in the night is infact a small door from where a child can reach his parents! Rumi is luck….

Your posting helped me but I am look for some specific information I will write you what I want… anyways if you have some more information of Rumi plz post them… thanks


Zubair Mahamood

[kmaherali]

I agree with Shams point of view where man's vision ends Allah doesn’t' even starts! The reality is beyond our knowledge. Pir Shams started from the point where Prophet Muhammad left Rumi that’s y I always say He known us better then us Spiritually or Non Spiritually… I think

Ya Ali Madad

Shams Tabriz and Pir Shamsh are two distinct personalities. Pir Shams was not a son of the Imam but a son of a Pir.

[zubair_mahamood]

I agree with Shams point of view where man's vision ends Allah doesn’t' even starts! The reality is beyond our knowledge. Pir Shams started from the point where Prophet Muhammad left Rumi that’s y I always say He known us better then us Spiritually or Non Spiritually… I think

Ya Ali Madad

Shams Tabriz and Pir Shamsh are two distinct personalities. Pir Shams was not a son of the Imam but a son of a Pir.

Mowla Ali Madaad,

I didn't knew that thank... Which Pir has given us Present Dua or Who?

Zubair Mahamood

[kmaherali]

I didn't knew that thank... Which Pir has given us Present Dua or Who?

Zubair Mahamood

Ya Ali Madad,

The present Dua was given by Pir/Imam Sultam Muhammad Shah. The previous Dua was given by Pir Sadardeen.

Karim

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad,

visit google .com

click images

search Mowlana Rumi

click web

very interesting . . .

I searched online before I read you’re posting. They are n number of options but what I am looking is difficult to find. Actually I am not an Ismaili by birth, in society to the people who know me before I was blessed faith and who can’t understand me I am Sunni, and to the people I meet Now and the one who understand and respect my faith I am an Ismaili to them. It is difficult and sometime impossible to play two roles at same time.

I can’t discuss this with Sunnis and Ismailies don’t trust me (may be they do but I m not sure). It’s impossible to bare the pain when I don’t get reply for Ya Ali Madaad as Mowla Ali Madaad, when I stand out of Jamatkhana on big days and when Sunnis talk XYZ things about Ismaili or Hazar Imam. I feel helpless in such situation where The Blessing becomes Punishment…. Patient is always the key and believing in Divine Justice helps to an extent…

Mowla Hazar Imam is always Inspiring!

When I saw Hazar Imam 2nd time I was watching a presentation where he was addressing African with his eyeglass on and his voice trembling… I felt is this the guy who made me accept Him…. That guy didn’t need to wear eyeglass and don’t need to talk as an aged person…. He had command in his speak but his voice was not helping him… (I felt so!)

3rd time I went to see Hazar Imam in a Race Club in Paris with some Ismaili friends, while we were waiting my friend said there He comes! From the crowd He came like He was worried about the event, He looked simple, He was walking fast didn’t look like aged person but when he was on stairs He became slow took a pause, relaxed and careful passed stairs… then quickly went towards Princess Zahra…. He did even notice us (I missed it) I was thinking is this the person who made me submit myself to him… Then in stands everyone were looking infront and I was looking behind at Mowla’s stands… He was sitting, before race started He stood up from his place took his binocular to have a close look at the race... I didn’t even see what going on but kept my eyes on Mowla…. I said to myself the man who can hear my heart beat doesn’t need eyeglass, doesn’t need to stand up, doesn’t need to use binocular… He can see everything by close eyes, he can sit and watch the race, and He doesn’t need to do all these things!!!!! Well He was Aga Khan to others, He was everything to me, He is everything to me…. a celebrity, as social worker, a businessman, Prophet to Hazar Imam, Mowla Ali,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Allah! He plays so many roles at same time….. It was memorable day for me where I was thinking that the world must come to pause forever…. Whenever I think of my physical Dedaar of Mowla my sense doesn’t behave in an acceptable manger….

The way Mowla Hazar Imam manages to play different roles at same time was Inspiring… I knock both the doors with same intensity (zahir and batine) each day I face different issues living two lives(Ismaili and Sunni), managing day to day affairs is difficult That’s why I want to read Rumi’s Life story… How did he manage thing so that it can be helpful for me to manage zahir life…Hazar Imam is The Best Teacher and Motivates me!

My friend (a Tamil Christian) is reading me a story of aster these days. Aster a handicap Muslim girl living in Pakistan who is dependent on her father. After her father death she becomes alone then she prays and prays for help… one night Jesus comes for her rescue. She is blessed by Jesus! She become normal and starts following Jesus… she faces problem in Pakistan, etc, etc… well the author of the book wanted to make this point that Prophet Muhammad didn’t do any Miracle as Jesus did (giving life to death, making a handicap normal etc) so Christianity and Jesus are powerful than Islam and Prophet Muhammad….!

I don’t find time to read book by book so if anyone knows anything that I can help me… It will be kind of you…

There are several accounts of this historic meeting. One version says that during a lecture of Rumi's, Shams came in and dumped all of Rumi's books—one handwritten by his own father—into a pool of water. Rumi thought the books were destroyed, but Shams retrieved them, volume by volume, intact. Another version says that at a wave of Shams' hand, Rumi's books were engulfed in flames and burned to ashes. Shams then put his hand in the ashes and pulled out the books. (A story much like the first.) A third account says that Rumi was riding on a mule through a square in the center of Konya. A crowd of eager students walked by his feet. Suddenly a strange figure dressed in black fur approached Rumi, grabbed hold of his mule's bridle, and said: "O scholar of infinite knowledge, who was greater, Muhammad or Bayazid of Bestam?" This seemed like an absurd question since, in all of Islam, Muhammad was held supreme among all the prophets. Rumi replied, "How can you ask such a question?—No one can compare with Muhammad." "O then," Shams asked, "why did Muhammad say, 'We have not known Thee, O God, as thou should be known,' whereas Bayazid said, 'Glory unto me! I know the full glory of God'?"

Karim what is the status of Shams e Tabriz and Mowlan Rumi in Ismailism?

The question what Shams asked Rumi makes me think shams didn’t want Rumi to limit himself to something particular (in terms of knowledge) and the burning what Rumi mentions make me think something was incomplete in there relationship!

Did Rumi find answers to his questions?

Zubair Mahamood

[kmaherali]

Karim what is the status of Shams e Tabriz and Mowlan Rumi in Ismailism?

The question what Shams asked Rumi makes me think shams didn’t want Rumi to limit himself to something particular (in terms of knowledge) and the burning what Rumi mentions make me think something was incomplete in there relationship!

Did Rumi find answers to his questions?

Zubair Mahamood

Ya Ali Madad

Shams Tabriz as I mentioned before was a son of the Imam, hence he was a murid and of course an elevated one. Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah mentioned in the Mission Conference (1945) that Rumi was not an Ismaili but a disciple of an Ismaili.

In his Usul-e Din farman which is considered the most important farman MSMS equalled the status of Rumi with Nasir Khusraw, Pir Shams and Jesus as Haqiqati individuals. Hence we can say that Rumi was eventually successful in finding all his answers.

I know of at least two occasions when the Imam has advised his murids to read his Mathnavi. I would strongly recommend you to read it. It gives expression to many issues that one encounters on the path in the form of parables and ancdotes.

[zubair_mahamood]

Karim what is the status of Shams e Tabriz and Mowlan Rumi in Ismailism?

The question what Shams asked Rumi makes me think shams didn’t want Rumi to limit himself to something particular (in terms of knowledge) and the burning what Rumi mentions make me think something was incomplete in there relationship!

Did Rumi find answers to his questions?

Zubair Mahamood

Ya Ali Madad

Shams Tabriz as I mentioned before was a son of the Imam, hence he was a murid and of course an elevated one. Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah mentioned in the Mission Conference (1945) that Rumi was not an Ismaili but a disciple of an Ismaili.

In his Usul-e Din farman which is considered the most important farman MSMS equalled the status of Rumi with Nasir Khusraw, Pir Shams and Jesus as Haqiqati individuals. Hence we can say that Rumi was eventually successful in finding all his answers.

I know of at least two occasions when the Imam has advised his murids to read his Mathnavi. I would strongly recommend you to read it. It gives expression to many issues that one encounters on the path in the form of parables and ancdotes.

Ya Ali Madaad karim,

I believed so; Rumi must have been successful in finding all his answers. I think the burning Rumi mentions is not one sided, its the same burning which made Prophet Adam sick forgive from Allah, which made Prophet Esa to forgive His follower, which gave Prophet Muhammad Divine Vision of Allah and its same burning which make a mumin to lift hands to ask Allah for special blessing but accept whatever is granted! I believe This Burning in once heart is everything…! Rumi was Lucky to have this burning…..

I feel Rumi’s situation after reading your posting is like a kid of few days who is not comfortable in other hands…. A kid of few days when in someone else hand doesn’t accept unusual touch, He cry:/scream as he don’t feel safe, He does everything so that his mom take him back The movement his mom takes him in her arms he stops crying as he feels the touch which he felt for 9 months! The touch of safety, the touch which makes the kid feels secure!

Its two sided burning both mother and kid is equally involved, when a kid cries mother will answer. As you all know a kid is totally depended on his mother and a kid is a responsibility of parents, He wears according to mother’s choose, eats according to mother, etc…. similarly I think Rumi was Allah responsibility he was specially blessed. His question might have been answered because it was two sided affair! He was lucky and I think wherever he is he is lucky…

Q. What is Mathnavi?
Is it the Tale of Masnavi which is available online at this site… (http://books.google.com/books?id=nLXH2Z ... rw#PPA1,M1) if not can u give me ISBN of Mathnavi so that I can order it…

Thanks,
Zubair Mahamood

[kmaherali]

Q. What is Mathnavi?
Is it the Tale of Masnavi which is available online at this site… (http://books.google.com/books?id=nLXH2Z ... rw#PPA1,M1) if not can u give me ISBN of Mathnavi so that I can order it…

Thanks,
Zubair Mahamood

Ya Ali Madad

Mathnavi is essentially a poem and is considered as one of the best known and most influential works of Muslim mysticism.

There are six volumesin 3 two-volume books.

Vol I & II --- 0 906094 08 9
Vol III & IV --- 0 906094 09 7
Vol V & VI ---- 0 906094 10 0

Just to illustrate the importance MSMS attached to Mathnavi, I heard the following anecdote about Pirbhai Mukhi of Paris who used to visit the late Imam when he was ill in hospital.

When Mukhi Saheb went to visit the Imam for the first time, the late Imam advised him to buy the 6 volumes. The next time when he visited the Imam, the Imam asked him whether he bought them. The Mukhi hadn't, so he bought them. The next time he visited the Imam, the Imam asked him: "Did you read them?".

In my opinion the Mathnavi was the reward of his service.

This anecdote was related by Alwaez/Missionary Salim Moosa.