Ismailism and Bahai

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:48 pm

Can anyone tell me the similarities between the two religion because I know both religions celebrate Navroz.

Thank you,

Faisal

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:17 am

The following is the description of the sect given in Cyril Glasse's "The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam".

Baha'is. A religion of modern times; an ottshoot of the Babi sect of Persia (itself an ottshoot of the Shaykhis, who broke away from Twelve-Imam ShT'ism). In the middle of the last century the Babis split three ways: original Babis, Azali Babis, and Baha'is. The Azalis are now extinct. After the death of the Bab, Mirza 'Ali Muhammad, in 1267/1850, one branch ot the BabT movement followed a young man called by the Babi name of Subh-i Azal ("the Eternal Dawn"). After three Babi followers attempted to assassinate Shah Nasir ad-Din in 1269/1852, the Babis were repressed by the government (the talented Babi poetess Zarrin Taj, called Qurrat al-'Ayn, or "Coolness ot the Eye" was executed, with others), and Subh-i Azal left Persia for Baghdad.

Subh-i Azal's leadership was successfully challenged by Baha' Allah ("the Splendor of God" 1233-1310/1817-1892) whose former, pre-Babi name was Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nun. Baha' Allah lost no time in declaring himself "the promised one" of the Bab's prophecies and founded Baha'ism, taking many ot the BabT followers with him.

In 1280/1863 at the request of the Persian government, the Ottomans imprisoned the Baha'i chiefs, at first in Edirne (Adrianople), and then sent Subh-i Azal to Cyprus, and Baha' Allah to Acre (Akko) in Palestine. There was intrigue between the two factions; the Azalis went into decline and became extinct. The Baha'i branch flourished, despite a heavy 19% levy on the revenue of its followers. After the death of Baha' Allah in internment at Acre in 1892, there were many schisms, firstly between his sons. One ot them, 'Abbas Effendi (1844-1921), who took the name 'Abd al-Baha', ("Slave of Baha' Allah") discovered that he, too, had the gift of prophecy. A similar claim was later made bv his son, Shoghi Effendi (d. 1957), but control of the organization was placed in the hands of a council.

The tomb ot Baha' Allah in Haifa, Israel, is a shrine ot Baha'ism. The sect itself, now denuded of traditional religious trappings and propounding an
accommodating mixture ot syncretism, humanism, world peace, and brotherly love, gained a certain following in Europe and, above all, in America, where it had been energetically promoted. In Iran, the Baha'is are now looked upon as heretical and are often persecuted with great rigor.

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:34 am

Thank you, I was just asking because my suite mates are Bahahi's and the other day we were just discussing religion. They did question something that I had a hard time answering. I told them about Hazir Imam and they said how do u know that he is the one? The only answer I could give was that its Faith. Do u think that was a good or bad answer?

Faisal

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:55 am

faisall667 wrote:Thank you, I was just asking because my suite mates are Bahahi's and the other day we were just discussing religion. They did question something that I had a hard time answering. I told them about Hazir Imam and they said how do u know that he is the one? The only answer I could give was that its Faith. Do u think that was a good or bad answer?

Faisal

I think we can do more than that. We have historical evidence as well.

Reflecting upon the background information about the Bahai community being an offshoot of 12 ver Shiism, it appears that such questions are prompted by the disatisfaction with doctrine of hidden Imam and the need to find out the legitimate one. The very least we can do is to expose them to the historical evidence.

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:53 am

And they would be ginans? or ?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:30 am

faisall667 wrote:And they would be ginans? or ?

Imam Sultan Muhammmad Shah gives a brief exposition in his memoirs which can be referenced at:

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html

For a detailed online one, there is a link to the 'Ismaili History' section at the site map to the left of this window.

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:01 am

faisall667 wrote:Thank you, I was just asking because my suite mates are Bahahi's and the other day we were just discussing religion. They did question something that I had a hard time answering. I told them about Hazir Imam and they said how do u know that he is the one? The only answer I could give was that its Faith. Do u think that was a good or bad answer?

Faisal

If Mowla wills He will reply them That He is the only ‘ONE’.... I agree with Kmaherali that we can show them historic evidence as well as we can show them Jamat activates, the work it's undertaking and other social aspect that are based on Islamic beliefs… which are different from other sects and all activities are directly or indirectly is under Hazar Imam…

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

During the conversation they asked me, "So what does he do?" and I answered that "he breeds horses." Their reply hurt my feelings but I guess it was out of ignorance. They said "How can you believe in such a person? A prophet would not need money to lead people." (I know it says prophet, I explained to them what an Imam is, but I couldn't differentiate it for them). Anyway, my reply was that "To lead in this world, in this century, one needs prestige and so his profession is a need for him to lead".

Was that a bad answer?

What would you have said?

How do you explain a non-Ismaili, non-muslim, the concept of Imam and Imamath?

Thank you,

Faisal

skaswani · Post by **skaswani** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:49 pm

YA ALI MADAD

A prophet would not need money to lead people

i think u need to refer back to Quran!

Prophet Suleman a.s as Prophet as well as Worldy King!

Quresh were King even Prophet pbuh 's 1st wife was a rich lady!

Hazart Usman r.a (3th Khalifa of Muslims) was a Richest Person of Arab!

... so?? now!

that is why Quran says "Invite people with beautiful teaching & teach them!"

but before teaching we should have knowlege too!

regards,

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:09 am

Right! I even mentioned that Prophet Muhammad was a business man and was married to a business woman.

skaswani · Post by **skaswani** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:54 am

True!

infact Prophet pbuh 1st marrage was because of his fairness in trade!

Islam put no limmit on ur earnings! but earning & spendinh should be in the ethical values of islam.

regards,

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:09 pm

faisall667 wrote:During the conversation they asked me, "So what does he do?" and I answered that "he breeds horses." Their reply hurt my feelings but I guess it was out of ignorance. They said "How can you believe in such a person? A prophet would not need money to lead people." (I know it says prophet, I explained to them what an Imam is, but I couldn't differentiate it for them). Anyway, my reply was that "To lead in this world, in this century, one needs prestige and so his profession is a need for him to lead".

Was that a bad answer?

What would you have said?

How do you explain a non-Ismaili, non-muslim, the concept of Imam and Imamath?

Thank you,

Faisal

Breeding horses is only one minor facet of his life. Imam Sultan muhammad Shah explains his role in the reference that I alluded to earlier. You should read the entire chapter and you will get all your answers. As a matter of fact I suggest you also refer this chapter to them.

zubair_mahamood · Post by **zubair_mahamood** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:14 pm

faisall667 wrote:Right! I even mentioned that Prophet Muhammad was a business man and was married to a business woman.

Faisal my brother…. I was a watching religious program on tv… they were sunni scholars defending Prophet Muhammad on child marriage… topic of discussion was Prophet Muhammad’s marriage with Aisha sidqha was an act of child marriage…. Sunni scholars were defending Prophet by saying she was mature enough for marriage on the bases that girl in gulf region get mature fast then other region due to climate or xyz …. I see u defending Hazar Imam on your bases…. I meet people who defend Prophet Jesus…. Prophet Musa …. Etc etc….

You made your point clear with the knowledge you have…. We can’t convince people to accept our belief nor we can accept there belief…. We should respect them and convey our perception in such a manner that they respect us… We do not do anything that is out of Islam and prophetic teachings. Read books and discussing topic like this with ismailies brothers around u, it will help u to understand and explain others our faith… when u can’t answer questions! Please make sure that u doesn’t leave wrong impression of our concepts on others… to explain others u must first learn our faith… I haven’t read Ismaili books but when I discuss our concepts with Muslim of Other case I use hadiths as I have read almost all of them allhamdulah which gives me chance to explain our concepts to Sunnis Muslims… u will find many such discussion online take time out from u r schedule and read them…

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:17 pm

I tried my best to explain to them about my religion to the best of my limited knowledge, but thank you for the encouragement.

Faisal

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:52 pm

Finally read it and it was beautiful. I enjoyed it--do they still sell this book?

Thnx,

Faisal

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:14 am

faisall667 wrote:Finally read it and it was beautiful. I enjoyed it--do they still sell this book?

Thnx,

Faisal

Do you mean the entire book or the chapter? The former has been reprinted recently in Pakistan and the latter I believe is available at the literature counters in JKs in the form of booklets.

faisall667 · Post by **faisall667** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:37 am

I was talking about the whole book, hopefully I can get my hands on the book soon.

Thnx,

Faisal