Why we Ismail donot mourn the Marthydom of Imaam Hussein in Karbala, Like all shia of aulbayt does specially on 10th of Mohaaram
(Bohras,Intasharies n others)
Are we allowed to go to there Mosque n learn more about Imam Hussein as in our Jamathkaha we are not told the history of Karbala???? pls
Month of Mohaaram and battle of Karbala
Re: Month of Mohaaram
It would be the same reason we celebrate July 11th. It is our (Ismaili) belief and teaching is not to mourn but to celebrate death. In the Imam's cases the celebration of continual of Imamet from one to another. Sure it is sad what happened to Imam Hussein and we must reflect on and respect other shia brethrens who mourn the event but we must know that we have the present Imam. And that is way we don't go beyond remembering the sad events and refrain from mourning the event.naushina wrote:Why we Ismail donot mourn the Marthydom of Imaam Hussein in Karbala, Like all shia of aulbayt does specially o­n 10th of Mohaaram<BR>(Bohras,Intasharies n others)<BR>Are we allowed to go to there Mosque n learn more about Imam Hussein as in our Jamathkaha we are not told the history of Karbala???? pls
Mowlana Rumi in his Mathnavi ( Book VI, 776 - 805) gives an interesting allusion to the event of Ashura (10th of Muharram) as witnessed by a poet as under:
Comparison of (the behaviour of) the heedless man who wastes his life and (only) begins to repent and ask pardon (of God) when he lies in extreme distress on his death-bed to the yearly mourning of the Shi'ites of Aleppo at the Antioch Gate (of the city) during the 'Ashura1; and how a poet, who was a stranger, arrived (there) on his journey and asked what was the cause of these shrieks of mourning.
On the Day of 'Ashura all the people of Aleppo gather at the Antioch Gate till nightfall,
Men and women, a great multitude, and keep up a constant lamentation for the (Holy) Family (I.e. Husayn, the Prophet's grandson, and his family).
During the 'Ashura the Shi'ites wail and lament with tears and sobs on account of Karbala3.
They recount the oppressions and tribulations which the 780 (Holy) Family suffered at the hands of Yazid and Shimr.
They utter shrieks (Literally, "their shrieks are going (forth).") mingled with cries of woe and grief: the whole plain and desert is filled (with their cries).
A stranger, (who was) a poet, arrived from the road on the Day of 'Ashura and heard that lamentation.
He left the city and resolved (to go) in that direction: he set out to investigate (the cause of) those shrill cries.
He went along, asking many questions in his search—"What is this sorrow? Whose death has occasioned this mourning?(Literally, "for whom has this mourning taken place?")
It must be a great personage who has died: such a concourse is no small affair.
Inform me of his name and titles, for I am a stranger and ye belong to the town.
What is his name and profession and character? (Tell me) in order that I may compose an elegy on his gracious qualities.
I will make an elegy—for I am a poet—that I may carry away from here some provision and morsels of food."
"Eh," said one (of them), "are you mad? You are not a Shi'ite, you are an enemy of the (Holy) Family. Don't you know that the Day of' Ashura is (a day of) mourning for a single soul that is more excellent than a (whole) generation ?
How should this anguish (tragedy) be lightly esteemed by the true believer? Love for the ear-ring (Imam Husayn) is in proportion to love for the ear (the prophet).
In the true believer's view the mourning for that pure spirit is more celebrated than a hundred Floods of Noah."
The poet's subtle discourse in criticism of the Shi'ites of Aleppo.
"Yes," said he; "but where (in relation to our time) is the epoch of Yazid? When did this grievous tragedy occur? How late has (the news of) it arrived here!
The eyes of the blind have seen that loss, the ears of the deaf have heard that story.
Have ye been asleep till now, that (only) now ye have rent your garments in mourning?
Then, O sleepers, mourn for yourselves , for this heavy slumber is an evil death.
A royal spirit escaped from a prison: why should we rend our garments and how should we gnaw our hands?
Since they (Husayn and his family) were monarchs of the (true) religion, 'twas the hour of joy (for them) when they broke their bonds.
They sped towards the pavilion of empire, they cast off their fetters and chains.
'Tis the day of (their) kingship and pride and sovereignty, if thou hast (even) an atom of knowledge of them.
And if thou hast not (this) knowledge, go, weep for thyself, for thou art disbelieving in the removal (from this world to the next) and in the assembly at the Last Judgement.
Mourn for thy corrupt heart and religion, for it (thy heart) sees naught but this old earth.
Or if it is seeing (the spiritual world), why is it not brave and supporting (others) and self-sacrificing and fully contented?
In thy countenance where is the happiness (which is the effect) of the wine of (true) religion? If thou hast beheld the Ocean (of Bounty), where is the bounteous hand?
He that has beheld the River does not grudge water (to the thirsty), especially he that has beheld that Sea and those Clouds."
Comparison of (the behaviour of) the heedless man who wastes his life and (only) begins to repent and ask pardon (of God) when he lies in extreme distress on his death-bed to the yearly mourning of the Shi'ites of Aleppo at the Antioch Gate (of the city) during the 'Ashura1; and how a poet, who was a stranger, arrived (there) on his journey and asked what was the cause of these shrieks of mourning.
On the Day of 'Ashura all the people of Aleppo gather at the Antioch Gate till nightfall,
Men and women, a great multitude, and keep up a constant lamentation for the (Holy) Family (I.e. Husayn, the Prophet's grandson, and his family).
During the 'Ashura the Shi'ites wail and lament with tears and sobs on account of Karbala3.
They recount the oppressions and tribulations which the 780 (Holy) Family suffered at the hands of Yazid and Shimr.
They utter shrieks (Literally, "their shrieks are going (forth).") mingled with cries of woe and grief: the whole plain and desert is filled (with their cries).
A stranger, (who was) a poet, arrived from the road on the Day of 'Ashura and heard that lamentation.
He left the city and resolved (to go) in that direction: he set out to investigate (the cause of) those shrill cries.
He went along, asking many questions in his search—"What is this sorrow? Whose death has occasioned this mourning?(Literally, "for whom has this mourning taken place?")
It must be a great personage who has died: such a concourse is no small affair.
Inform me of his name and titles, for I am a stranger and ye belong to the town.
What is his name and profession and character? (Tell me) in order that I may compose an elegy on his gracious qualities.
I will make an elegy—for I am a poet—that I may carry away from here some provision and morsels of food."
"Eh," said one (of them), "are you mad? You are not a Shi'ite, you are an enemy of the (Holy) Family. Don't you know that the Day of' Ashura is (a day of) mourning for a single soul that is more excellent than a (whole) generation ?
How should this anguish (tragedy) be lightly esteemed by the true believer? Love for the ear-ring (Imam Husayn) is in proportion to love for the ear (the prophet).
In the true believer's view the mourning for that pure spirit is more celebrated than a hundred Floods of Noah."
The poet's subtle discourse in criticism of the Shi'ites of Aleppo.
"Yes," said he; "but where (in relation to our time) is the epoch of Yazid? When did this grievous tragedy occur? How late has (the news of) it arrived here!
The eyes of the blind have seen that loss, the ears of the deaf have heard that story.
Have ye been asleep till now, that (only) now ye have rent your garments in mourning?
Then, O sleepers, mourn for yourselves , for this heavy slumber is an evil death.
A royal spirit escaped from a prison: why should we rend our garments and how should we gnaw our hands?
Since they (Husayn and his family) were monarchs of the (true) religion, 'twas the hour of joy (for them) when they broke their bonds.
They sped towards the pavilion of empire, they cast off their fetters and chains.
'Tis the day of (their) kingship and pride and sovereignty, if thou hast (even) an atom of knowledge of them.
And if thou hast not (this) knowledge, go, weep for thyself, for thou art disbelieving in the removal (from this world to the next) and in the assembly at the Last Judgement.
Mourn for thy corrupt heart and religion, for it (thy heart) sees naught but this old earth.
Or if it is seeing (the spiritual world), why is it not brave and supporting (others) and self-sacrificing and fully contented?
In thy countenance where is the happiness (which is the effect) of the wine of (true) religion? If thou hast beheld the Ocean (of Bounty), where is the bounteous hand?
He that has beheld the River does not grudge water (to the thirsty), especially he that has beheld that Sea and those Clouds."
Re: Month of Mohaaram
Ya Ali Madadnaushina wrote:Why we Ismail donot mourn the Marthydom of Imaam Hussein in Karbala, Like all shia of aulbayt does specially o­n 10th of Mohaaram<BR>(Bohras,Intasharies n others)<BR>Are we allowed to go to there Mosque n learn more about Imam Hussein as in our Jamathkaha we are not told the history of Karbala???? pls
i wonder do you have any idea when did this Moula Hussain a.s mourning was started?
Our 3rd Imam Imam Zanul Abdeen a.s never did
4th Imam Imam Baqir a,s never did
5th Imam Jafar a.s never did!
in my knowledge our NO Imam did it! nor he said his followers to do that
having said that, even the imams of 12vers even after Imam Jafar a,s never observe mourning!
it was long time back after the Gayabat of there 12th Imam they ThemSelf started!
so, why do we do things which they started not Imams!
another point which my brother righly mention, we dont be sad on Imam's death, but we be happy to see New Imam taking his Place!
another thing which you mention.. Few Years back i was really not aware of what happen with Imam Ali a.s & Hazart Fatima a.s, Imam Hasaan a,s & Imam Hussain a,s & All previous Imams,
if you read it, you will do what the normally Shii (12vers do) Tabara on sahabs, which Hazart Imam dont like!
so, better not get into past...
Yes, Imam a.s wants us to read OUR HISTORY! .. But WHY?? .. To Lean from Our History! , see how Imams lived! How Mureed gave their Life to Imams of the Time!
& try to make our Life Better!
Hazir Imam always said that "try to read the fatmid era & learn from it"
now its on us what we want to BE & What we want to GAIN
regards,
YA ALI MADAD
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zubair_mahamood
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Ya Ali Madad,
There are many tragedies in the history of Islam, if we were to do matam for each of them than whole year we would be crying. We must not forget we follow Hazar Imam, at the same time our history and traditions are also important but to an extent where we dont go against Hazar Imam.
I am not sure but regarding this when I asked a friend, she said me that Imam SMS has said that when I am hazar for what you want to cry in the month of Muhram…. I think that's the end of discussion. Imam SMS has made it clear.
Shah Je dedaar
Zubair
There are many tragedies in the history of Islam, if we were to do matam for each of them than whole year we would be crying. We must not forget we follow Hazar Imam, at the same time our history and traditions are also important but to an extent where we dont go against Hazar Imam.
I am not sure but regarding this when I asked a friend, she said me that Imam SMS has said that when I am hazar for what you want to cry in the month of Muhram…. I think that's the end of discussion. Imam SMS has made it clear.
Shah Je dedaar
Zubair
See..you have a problem here...naushina wrote:Please read??????
why we should mourn for our imam Hussein....
40 Ahadith Regarding Azadari
Introduction
The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) has said:
Those people from amongst my ummah, who memorise forty traditions pertaining to those issues of religion, which they are in need of, Allah shall resurrect them on the Day of Judgment as jurisprudents and scholars. (Bihar al-Anwaar, vol. 2, p. 156; Al-Ikhtasaas, p.2)
Hadith No.1
The Heat of Husaini Love
The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) said:
Surely, there exists in the hearts of the Mu' mineen, with respect to the martyrdom of Husain (A.S.), a heat that never subsides.
Mustadrak al-Wasail, vol. 10,pg. 318
Hadith No.2
A'ashura- A Day of Grief
Imam Reza (A.S.) said:
The one for whom the day of A'shura is a day of tragedy, grief and weeping, Allah The Mighty, The Glorious, shall make the Day of Judgment, a day of joy and happiness for him.
Bihar al-Anwar, vol,: 44,pg: 284
Hadith No.3
Muharram - The Month of Mourning
Imam Reza (A.S.) said:
With the advent of the month of Muharram, my father Imam Kazim (A.S.) would never be seen laughing; gloom and sadness would overcome him for (the first) ten days of the month; and when the tenth day of the month would dawn, it would be a day of tragedy, grief and weeping for him.
Amaali Saduq, pg,:111
Hadith No.4
Laughing Eyes
The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) said:
O' Fatimah! Every eye shall be weeping on the Day of Judgment except the eye which has shed tears over the tragedy of Husain (A.S.) for surely, that eye shall be laughing and shall be given the glad tidings of the bounties and comforts of Paradise.
Bihar al-Anwar, vol,: 44;pg,:293.
Hadith No. 5
Reward of the Martyred Companions
Imam Reza (A.S.) said (to one of his companions):
If you desire that for you be the reward equivalent to that of those martyred along with Husain (A.S.), then whenever you remember him say: 'Oh! Would that I had been with them! A great achievement would I have achieved'.
Wasaail al-Shia'h, vol.14, pg. 502
Hadith No. 6
The Customary Mourning
Abu Haroon al-Makfoof said:
I presented myself before Imam Sadiq (A.S.) whereupon he said to me: "Recite for me a poetry" and so I recited for him. He said "Not in this manner. Recite for me as you recite poems and elegies over the grave of Husain (A.S.)" and so I recited for him (again).
Bihar al-Anwar,Vol. :44, pg.: 287.
Hadith No.7
Reward for Reciting Poetry about Husain (A.S.)
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
There is none who recites poetry about Husain (A.S.) and weeps and makes others weep by means of it, except that Allah makes Paradise incumbent upon him and forgives his sins.
Rijal al-Shaikh al-Tusi, pg.: 289.
Hadith No.8
People of Eulogies and Elegies
Imam Sadiq (A.S.)said:
All praise is for Allah, who has placed amongst the people, those who arrive in our presence, eulogizing us and reciting elegies about us.
Wasail al-Shia'h Vol.: 10, pg.: 469
Hadith No. 9
Poetry Recitation During the Period of Mourning
Imam Reza (A.S.) said (to De'bil, a poet sincereiy devoted to the Ahlul bayt):
I desire that you recite for me poetry, for surely, these days (of the month of Muharram) are the days of grief and sorrow, which have passed over us, Ahlul Bayt.
Mustadrak al-Wasail, vol. 10, pg. 386.
Hadith No. 10
Shi'ites- The Companions and Associates
Imam 'Ali(A.S.) said:
Surely, Allah has chosen for us followers (Shi'ites), who assist us and are happy at our happiness and are sad in our sadness.
Ghurar al-Hikam, Vol: 1/ pg.: 235.
Hadith No. 11
Paradise - The Recompense of A'zadari
Imam 'Ali Ibn al-Husain(A. S) used to say:
Every Mu'min, whose eyes shed tears upon the killing of Husain Ibn' Ali (A.S.) and his companions, such that the tears roll down his cheeks, Allah shall accommodate him in the elevated rooms of paradise.
Yannaabe' al-Mawaddah, pg.: 429.
Hadith No.12
In Remembrance of the Children of Fatimah (A.S.)
Imam Sajjad(A.S.) said:
Surely, I have never brought to mind the martyrdom of the children of Fatimah (A.S.) except that I have been choked with tears due to it.
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.: 46, Pg.: 109.
Hadith No. 13
Mourning in the Houses
For those unable to go for the ziyarat of Imam Husain (A.S.) on the day of A'shura, Imam Baqir (A.S.) mentions the manner of performing A'zadari as follows: He should mourn over Husain (A.S.), weep for him and instruct the members of the house to weep for him. He should establish the mourning ceremony in the house by exhibiting lamentions and grief over him; the people should meet one another in their homes and offer condolences and consolations to each other over the calamities which befell him.
Kaamil al-Ziyaraat, Pg.: 175.
Hadith No. 14
'Ali (A.S.) Weeps Grieving the Martyrs of Karbala
Imam Baqir (A.S.) said:
Amirul Mu'mineen Ali (A.S.), along with two of his companions, happened to pass by Karbala and as he did so, tears filled his eyes. He said (to them), "This is the resting place of their animals; and this is where their luggage shall be laid down; and it is here that their blood shall be shed. Blessed are you O' Earth, that the blood of the beloved shall be spilled upon you."
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.: 44, pg.: 258
Hadith No. 15
Tears - Barrier of Hell
Imam Baqir (A.S.) said:
He who remembers us, or in whose presence, we are remembered, and (as a result) tears flow from his eyes, even though they may be in the measure of a wing of a mosquito, Allah shall construct for him a house in paradise and make the tears a barrier between him and the fire (of hell).
Al-Ghadeer, Vol.: 2, pg.: 202
Hadith No. 16
Twenty Years of Weeping!
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
As for A'li Ibn al-Husain (A.S.), he cried over Husain (A.S.) for twenty years (after the tragedy of Karbala); never would any food be placed before him except that he would begin to weep.
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.: 46, Pg.: 108
Hadith No. 17
The Etiquette of Mourning
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
When Ibrahim, the son of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) died, tears filled the eyes of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.), whereupon he said, "The eyes are tearful and the heart is anguished (but) we shall not say anything which shall anger the Lord. Surely we, O' Ibrahim, are grief-stricken for you"
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.: 22,Pg.: 157.
Hadith No. 18
Tearful Eyes
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
He in whose presence we (and our miseries) are mentioned and, as a result, his eyes pour out tears, Allah shall make his face forbidden upon the fire of hell.
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.: 44, Pg., 285.
Hadith No. 19
Husaini Gatherings
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said to Fudhail:
Do you sit together, talk and discuss amongst yourselves?
Fudhail replied: Yes.
The Imam then said: I approve of these sittings. So keep our 'issue' (Imamate) alive. May Allah exhibit mercy on those who revive our issue and mission!
Wasail al-Shia'h, vol.:10, Pg.: 392
Hadith No. 20
Invaluable Tears
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said (to Masma', one of those who mourned over Imam Husain (A.S.)):
May Allah have mercy upon your tears! Do know that you are regarded as being of those who are deeply concerned about us and of those who are happy at our happiness and aggrieved at our sorrow.
Do know that you shall witness the presence of my fathers near you at the time of your death.
Wasail al-Shia'h, Vol.: 10, Pg.:397
Hadith No. 21
Scalded Hearts
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) (while sitting on the prayer mat prayed for the mourners and those going for the ziyarat of the Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) as follows):
O' Lord, have mercy upon those eyes, which have shed tears in compassion for us; and upon those hearts, which have been restless and blistered for us; and upon those wailings, which have been for us.
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.:98, Pg.:8.
Hadith No. 22
Tears over the Oppressed State of the Shi'ites
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
He whose eyes shed tears for our blood which has been shed, or for our rights which have been usurped, or for the humiliation meted out to us or to one of our Shiites, Allah shall accomodate him in paradise for a long time.
Amali al-Shaikh al-Mufid, Pg.: 175.
Hadith No. 23
Weeping of the Sky
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
O' Zurarah! The sky had cried for forty days over (the martyrdom of) Husain (A.S.)
Mustadrak al-Wasail, vol. 1, pg. 391
Hadith No. 24
The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) and Weeping over the Martyrs
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
After the news of the martyrdom of Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib (A.S.) and Zaid Ibn Harithah reached the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.), whenever he he entered his house, he would weep profusely for them and say:'' They used to converse with me and were intimate with me and (now) both of them have departed together''.
Man La Yahdhuruhu al-Faqih, Vol.: 1, pg.: 177.
Hadith No. 25
Sympathy for Ahlubayt
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
The breath of one who is aggrieved upon the injustice and oppression subjected to us, is tasbeeh (glorification of Allah), and his concealing our secrets, is jihad in the path of Allah.
The Imam (A.S.) them added: This tradition ought to be written in gold.
Amali al-Shaikh al-Mufid, pg.: 338.
Hadith No. 26
Mourning Angels
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
Allah has appionted to the grave of Imam Husain (A.S.), four thousand anguished and grief-stricken angels, who weep over him (and shall continue to do so) up to the Day of Judgment.
Kamil al-Ziyaraat, pg.: 119.
Hadith No. 27
Weeping over Husain (A.S.)
Imam Reza (A.S.) said (to Reyyan Ibn Shabib):
O' Son of Shabib! If you have to cry over something, then do so over Husain Ibn 'Ali (A.S.) for surely, he was slaughtered in the manner in which a ram is slaughtered.
Bhar al-Anwar/ Vol.: 44/ pg.: 286.
Hadith No.28
Gatherings in Remembrance of the Imams
Imam Reza (A.S.) said:
He who sits in a gathering in which our affairs (and our path and aims) are discussed and revived, his heart shall not die on the day (Day of Judgment) when hearts shall die (of fear).
Bihar al-Anwar Vol.: 44, pg.:278
Hadith No. 29
Benefits of Weeping over Husain (A.S.)
Imam Reza (A.S.) said:
Those who weep should weep over the likes of Husain (A.S.) for surely, weeping over him does away with one's great sins.
Bihar al-Anwar, Vol.: 44/ pg.: 284.
Hadith No. 30
Forgiveness of Sins
Imam Reza (A.S.) said:
O' Son of Shabib! Should you weep for Husain (A.S.) in the measure that tears roll down your cheeks, Allah would forgive all the sins committed by you, whether they be the great sins or the small sins and whether they be meagre or immense.
Amaali al-Saduq, pg.:112.
Hadith No. 31
Intimacy with the Progeny
Imam Reza (A.S.) said (to Ibn Shabib):
O' Son of Shabib! If it makes you happy (and you desire) to be with us in the elevated ranks of paradise, then be sad in our grief and happy at our happiness.
Wasaail al-Shia'h, Vol. 14, pg. 502
Hadith No. 32
Day of Ashura
Imam Reza (A.S.) said:
One who refrains from seeking his (worldly) desires on the day of Ashura, Allah shall grant him his desires of this world and the hereafter.
Wasail al-Shia'h, vol. 14,pg.504.
Hadith No. 33
Pilgrim of Husain (A.S.)
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
The zaair (pilgrim) of Imam Husain (A.S.) turns back (from his pilgrimage) such that not a single sin remains upon him.
Wasail al-shia'h, vol. 14,pg. 422.
Hadith No. 34
Husain (A.S.) Seeks Forgiveness for his Pilgrims
(Regarding someone who goes for pilgrimage to the shrine of Imam Husain (A.S.), Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
One who weeps for Imam Husain (A.S.), surely, the Imam (A.S.) observes him and seeks forgiveness for him and requests his holy fathers to (also) seek forgiveness for him.
Bihar al-Anwar vol. 44,pg. 281
Hadith No. 35
Intercession on the Day of Judgment
The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) (said to Hadrat Fatimah (A.S.): On the Day of Judgment, you shall intercede for the ladies and I shall intercede for the men; every person who has wept over the tragedy of Husain (A.S.), we shall take him by the hand and lead him into Paradise.
Bihar al-Anwar vol. 44,pg. 292.
Hadith No.36
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) on Day of Ashura
A'bdullah Ibn Sinaan says:
I arrived in the presence of my master, Imam Sadiq (A.S.) on the day of Ashura and found him pale and grief-stricken, with tears streaming from his eyes like falling pearls.
Musadrak al-wasail,vol. 6, pg. 279.
Hadith No.37
Neither Angels nor Prophets
The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) said:
(On the Day of Judgment, a group would be seen in the most excellent and honourable of states. They would be asked if they were of the Angels or of the Prophets. In reply they would state): "We are neither Angels nor Prophets but of the indigent ones from the ummah of Muhammad (S.A.W.)". They would then be asked: "How then did you achieve this lofty and honourable status?" They would reply: "We did not perform very many good deeds nor did we pass all the days in a state of fasting or all the nights in a state of worship but yes, we used to offer our (daily) prayers (regularly) and whenever we used to hear the mention of Muhammad (S.A.W.), tears would roll down our cheeks".
Mustadrak al-Wasail, vol. 10, pg. 318.
Hadith No. 38
Visiting the Shrine of Imam Husain (A.S.)
Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said:
He (Imam Husain) sees those, who come to his shrine and he knows them by their names, their father's names and their ranks in the eyes of Allah, The Glorious, better than you know your own children!
Wasaail al-Shia'h, vol. 14, pg. 422.
Hadith No. 39
Isa(Jesus) (A.S.) weeps
Imam A'li (A.S.) said to Ibn A'bbas:
(Once when he happened to pass by Karbala), Isa Jesus (A.S.) sat down and began to weep. His disciples who were observing him, followed suit and began weeping too, but not comprehending the reason for this behaviour, they asked him: "O' Spirit of God! What is it that makes you weep?" Isa Jesus (A.S.) said: "Do you know what land this is?" The disciples replied: "No." He then said: "This is the land on which the son of the Prophet Ahmad (S.A.W.) shall be killed.
Bihar al-Anwar vol. 44,g. 252.
Hadith No. 40
All Creatures Weep over Imam Husain (A.S.)
Abu Baseer narrates that Imam Baqir (A.S.) said:
The humans, the jinn, the birds and the wild beasts (all) mourned and wept over (the tragedy which befell) Husain Ibn A'li (A.S.)
Kaamil al-Ziyaraat, Pg. 79.
"Your life is God's gift to you. What you do for others is your gift to God"
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With the hadiths...and with the imams.
You are quoting hadiths from the Ithna Asheri Imams past Jafar As Sadiq..not that it is wrong for you to do so...for you..it isn't wrong..however for us...it is wrong..because we are not Twelver Shias, but Sevener Shias. The other problem with some of your hadiths is chronological, some of these hadiths are attributed to the prophet - in which he speaks of the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, when that chronogolically speaking had not happened.
The main thing is..why mourn for Imam Hussein...we HAVE IMAM HUSSEIN..and IMAM ALI...all in the being of our 49th Imam - Shah Karim el Husseini...who is living and present. As Sevener Nizari Ismailies whether Satpanthis, Khojas, Tajiki, Khusrawi, Syrian, Chinese, or Russian, we believe in the NOOR of the IMAM...the SPIRIT...the ESSENCE..the physical body has no value to us.
The imams you speak of that mourned Imam Hussein were Twelver or Ithna Asheri Imams...not the Sevener or Nizari Imams...neither we nor the Bohoras (Dawoodi or otherwise) mourn Imam Hussein. As fellow muslims we respect your practises and will not hold any celebrations or weddings or events during the month of Muharram.
Shams.
I know the story of Imam Hussain and Imam Ali and all the other Imam. The point is not there.
We are treated as non-Muslim by others, the point is not there.
Be focussed. We are Ismailis. This means we have a living Imam. Our Imam is not dead. In a Farman dated 1956, Sultan Muhammad Shah said "you have a living Imam, you do not want a dead Imam". It looks like nowadays we prefer a dead Imam like some of our brothers in Islam.
In some backward countries and cities like Nairobi, story of Imam Hussain was read in Jamatkhana as preparation of Mohram. This is absolutely against the Farmans of Sultan Muhamma Shah. Councillors who were once part of the Hussain day celebration were asked by our Imam to resign. Here in Nairobi our ladies of Safai are told that they can not have tea in JK after Safai of the JK of our LIVING IMAM because it is Muhoram. What nonense!
We have lost about 100 Ismailis to Sunnis [they do better Ramadhan then Ismailis] and to Ithnashri [they do better Moharam] since the last two years in Nairobi thanks to the preaching of local ITREB which didi not miss a chance to promote Rozas and moharam, which others do better.
Come back to reality and to your responsibility as Ismaili if you have done Bayah. Else our brothers in Islam will be very happy that you join them.
Our faith is a faith of hapiness, so said our Imam. Whoever preaches us the contrary , his place is in Jamats who do not care about what our Imam says. They can go and follow dead Imams. We Ismailis, o­nce all the dirt is gone, will be most lucky to stick to our own Imam and whatever spiritual and material direction his noor has given to us.
Imam Ali Shah said in his farman, I am Imam Hussein, I am alive, why do you want to mourn?
We are treated as non-Muslim by others, the point is not there.
Be focussed. We are Ismailis. This means we have a living Imam. Our Imam is not dead. In a Farman dated 1956, Sultan Muhammad Shah said "you have a living Imam, you do not want a dead Imam". It looks like nowadays we prefer a dead Imam like some of our brothers in Islam.
In some backward countries and cities like Nairobi, story of Imam Hussain was read in Jamatkhana as preparation of Mohram. This is absolutely against the Farmans of Sultan Muhamma Shah. Councillors who were once part of the Hussain day celebration were asked by our Imam to resign. Here in Nairobi our ladies of Safai are told that they can not have tea in JK after Safai of the JK of our LIVING IMAM because it is Muhoram. What nonense!
We have lost about 100 Ismailis to Sunnis [they do better Ramadhan then Ismailis] and to Ithnashri [they do better Moharam] since the last two years in Nairobi thanks to the preaching of local ITREB which didi not miss a chance to promote Rozas and moharam, which others do better.
Come back to reality and to your responsibility as Ismaili if you have done Bayah. Else our brothers in Islam will be very happy that you join them.
Our faith is a faith of hapiness, so said our Imam. Whoever preaches us the contrary , his place is in Jamats who do not care about what our Imam says. They can go and follow dead Imams. We Ismailis, o­nce all the dirt is gone, will be most lucky to stick to our own Imam and whatever spiritual and material direction his noor has given to us.
Imam Ali Shah said in his farman, I am Imam Hussein, I am alive, why do you want to mourn?
YA ALI MADAD
i think this topic is getting Hot, pls cool down brothers!
lets discuss!
Brother Zubair said
"I am not sure but regarding this when I asked a friend, she said me that Imam SMS has said that when I am hazar for what you want to cry in the month of Muhram…. I think that's the end of discussion. Imam SMS has made it clear. "
yes! He was Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah, when his Mureed (followers) once were sad , Imam asked Why are you sad, they reply "moula we are recalling our memories of ur father", Imam said "when i am here why you are crying, I am Living Ali !"
these are not exact words, but the same in meaning!
Brother Metion the Bohries dont do Matam, Brother they do!
but they did'nt done in there Imams Time period, they also Invented this theory after their imam went in gayabat! as per my knowledge!
my another brother mention why dontr we do matam on Imam's Sahadat!
i think brother you have not refer to our History!
our Many Imams were shayeed! they get shadat,
& the noor transform to other imam!
but in anyways if u really want to do matam! & if you are loyal ismaili then i'll advise you to get the Named from Our History of Our Imams who accepted Shadat & do matam on all!
do you know about Fadak? .. isna ashari yet fighting 4 it with sunnies
do you know abt Saqifa??
do you know what hazart Umar did with Ali a,s?? & Bibi Fatima a,s??
right after the death of the Last Prophet pbuh the loyal sahaba include Hazart Umar r.a & Hazart Abu Baker took FIRE to Ali a.s home??
Fatima a.s remind him that THIS IS FATIMA Bin te Mohmmand,
Hazart Umar r.a said " I dont care"
read History by Tabari (a sunni historian)
same is also mention in "AL FAROOQ " By Alama Shabile Nomani"
so?? do you want me to but more Horrable Events which Happen to Ahale Bait??
Hasan a,s was Killed by his wife by the Order of Hazart Maviya ( father of Yazeed)
Hazart Aysha r.a (wife of Prophet pbuh) fought War against Ali a.s when he was Khalifa! .. she killed many Shabaha in that War which is very famous as "War of Jamal"
Hazart Maviya fought 2 wars against Hazart Ali a.s when he was Khalifa
Hazart Maviya introduced a bidat that "in every Juma & Eid Khutaba Ali a.s & his family should be cursed"
read Khalafat wa Malukayat by Moulana Mouddudi
& Tibari &
Muslim Shareef
DO YOU WANT MORE??
i dont mind i can give you LISTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT that you can continue you mourning 365 days a year!
brother! ... we follow Our Imam! if he will oder us we will observe mourning too!
lets ask you self
'do we pray daily"
do we go to jk daily
do we give dasund
do we perform every ibadat & orders given by our Imam that we need more time to do new things??
yet, moula in his farman mention, if You have time "call Ya ALLAH, call YA Mohmmad, call YA ALI "
why dont we!
brother We are not Sunnies!
we are not isna ashari
we are not Bohari!
we are ISMAILI !
& thing which make us unique is "WE OBEY THE HAZIR IMAM"
not the Fiqa Imam
nor Saudi Imams
nor Hidden Imam(s)
regards,
YA ALI MADAD
i think this topic is getting Hot, pls cool down brothers!
lets discuss!
Brother Zubair said
"I am not sure but regarding this when I asked a friend, she said me that Imam SMS has said that when I am hazar for what you want to cry in the month of Muhram…. I think that's the end of discussion. Imam SMS has made it clear. "
yes! He was Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah, when his Mureed (followers) once were sad , Imam asked Why are you sad, they reply "moula we are recalling our memories of ur father", Imam said "when i am here why you are crying, I am Living Ali !"
these are not exact words, but the same in meaning!
Brother Metion the Bohries dont do Matam, Brother they do!
but they did'nt done in there Imams Time period, they also Invented this theory after their imam went in gayabat! as per my knowledge!
my another brother mention why dontr we do matam on Imam's Sahadat!
i think brother you have not refer to our History!
our Many Imams were shayeed! they get shadat,
& the noor transform to other imam!
but in anyways if u really want to do matam! & if you are loyal ismaili then i'll advise you to get the Named from Our History of Our Imams who accepted Shadat & do matam on all!
do you know about Fadak? .. isna ashari yet fighting 4 it with sunnies
do you know abt Saqifa??
do you know what hazart Umar did with Ali a,s?? & Bibi Fatima a,s??
right after the death of the Last Prophet pbuh the loyal sahaba include Hazart Umar r.a & Hazart Abu Baker took FIRE to Ali a.s home??
Fatima a.s remind him that THIS IS FATIMA Bin te Mohmmand,
Hazart Umar r.a said " I dont care"
read History by Tabari (a sunni historian)
same is also mention in "AL FAROOQ " By Alama Shabile Nomani"
so?? do you want me to but more Horrable Events which Happen to Ahale Bait??
Hasan a,s was Killed by his wife by the Order of Hazart Maviya ( father of Yazeed)
Hazart Aysha r.a (wife of Prophet pbuh) fought War against Ali a.s when he was Khalifa! .. she killed many Shabaha in that War which is very famous as "War of Jamal"
Hazart Maviya fought 2 wars against Hazart Ali a.s when he was Khalifa
Hazart Maviya introduced a bidat that "in every Juma & Eid Khutaba Ali a.s & his family should be cursed"
read Khalafat wa Malukayat by Moulana Mouddudi
& Tibari &
Muslim Shareef
DO YOU WANT MORE??
i dont mind i can give you LISTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT that you can continue you mourning 365 days a year!
brother! ... we follow Our Imam! if he will oder us we will observe mourning too!
lets ask you self
'do we pray daily"
do we go to jk daily
do we give dasund
do we perform every ibadat & orders given by our Imam that we need more time to do new things??
yet, moula in his farman mention, if You have time "call Ya ALLAH, call YA Mohmmad, call YA ALI "
why dont we!
brother We are not Sunnies!
we are not isna ashari
we are not Bohari!
we are ISMAILI !
& thing which make us unique is "WE OBEY THE HAZIR IMAM"
not the Fiqa Imam
nor Saudi Imams
nor Hidden Imam(s)
regards,
YA ALI MADAD
In religious matters, the majority is not always right. Think about the relative size of Shia and Sunni populations.naushina wrote:Brother Skaswani
Moharram Ashura day has been observed by all previous imam
3rd imam Zainul Abedin was in Karbala with his father all his life use to cry and mourn the tragedy of Karbala.
Why the Ismails only do not mourn the Tragedy of Karbala,as i said all FOLLOWERES OF AULLBAYT DO SO.
Imam Hussein sacrifce is uniqe??????
The following is a pertinent farman of the Imam mentioning Imam Husein in Karbala and the necessity of the presence of the Imam.
"Imam never disappears ... Imam is to be present in the world to guide his followers at all times for their benefit, to lead them to the right path and maintain Imamat.
Every messenger of God like Prophet Mohamned (May peace of God be on him) who had come in this world, used to say that he holds Prophethood of the world. They used to claim publicly that they were the messengers of God and were not afraid of the people.
On the field of Karbala, a great battle was fought against Hazrat Imam Husein. At that time he fought single handed against thousands of people. Inspite of enduring such oppressions and afflictions from the enemy, he used to say: 'I am Imam.' Even at that critical stage, he did not disappear but encountered the enemies and went right into the enemy ranks further and deeper with only one 'STICK'.
Even at that time, he did not conceal his Imamat. If the Imam of the time were not to be present, everybody would be an infidel. At present, the 'STICK' (Imamat) of Hazrat Imam Husein is in my hands and I am myself Imam. Don't you see that even today I move about everywhere with only one 'STICK' in my hands because I am myself Imam and I fear not. Imams have never disappeared from this world; they cannot disappear."(Precious Pearls, No. 13, Cutch Nagalpur, 28-11-1903)
Good..you have learnt a little of Islamic History. Now go learn something about Ismaili History....maybe a little of Imam Hakim Amrillah - Declaration of Qiyamat ul Qiyamah?naushina wrote:Brother Shams
Do you belive in Prophet Mohammed,Imam Ali???
if yes then prove this hadiths are wrong.
By the way i have a bohra friend who said they do mourn the tragedy of Karbla and the day of Ashura.
Ireally feel sorry for myself when they ask me about Imam Hussein???
and Karbala ( I dont No)
So i have started to learn,
Imam Husein was the grandson of prophet Mohammed,
Son Imama Ali and Lady Fatima.
Lets start to learn about Imam Hussein and tragedy of Karbla
WE ARE TOLD WE ARE NOT MUSLIMS
IN TIME WE WILL BE TOLD WE ARE NOT EVEN SHIAS
If the Imam of the Time, tells me that I am not a muslim and I am not a Shia..then I am not a muslim and I am not a shia.
My faith isn't dependent on the other muslims...it is dependant solely on the Imam and i and my faith are at his behest. I have given Baiyat to follow the Imam and his farmans...and I will do so.
Now if that makes me less of a muslim and condemns me to hell...than that is my choice and my own problem.
Shams
-
nowroozalisabiti
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:29 am
- Location: Afghanistan
Ya Ali Maddad,
When the Kufi people invited Imam Hussain and alligained with him that they would be HIS partisans and HE should take action against the Umayyads to topple their Caliphate (regime).
When Imam Husain reached at Karbala with his followers, the Kufis breached their promise to Imam Husain and retreated and didn't help the Imam. So, the Imam came to Karbala for the hope of Kufis. The Kufis perjured and the Imam was killed with his partisans.
When the Kufis found out that the Imam had been killed; it was very embarrassing for them that they breached their promise to Imam Husain. They regretted regarding to what happened to Imam Husain. they didn't join Imam Husain the Grand-son of Hazrat Muhammad the Mulims prophet. So, they became very regretful that the grand-son of Hazrat Muhamad martyred and they proved their disloyalty to the world. Therefore, they repented what they acted against the Imam and began to mourning. Essentially, the killers of the Imam were the Kufis that they didn't help HIM and after his martyrdom they began to mourn.
Imam Husain was killed physically but not spiritually. His NOOR of Imamat manifested and transferred to Imam Zain al-Abideen and HIS NOOR transferred seed after seed and generation after generation to the 49th Imam of the Time. For us (Ismaili) Imam Husain is not dead to mourn. He is alive (Imam Husain is alive. Indeed Imam of the Time is Imam Husain himself).
In conclusion I can say that the Kufis began to weep not for Imam Husain martyrdom but for their repentance of breaching their promise. They wept and mourned every year and this action transferred to thier generations. and after that some other people immitated them and up to now the Ithna Asharis(Twelvers) came under the influence of the Kufis and up to now they are mourning. Thier has been martyred thousands of Messengers. If we mourn for the death of each it will take the entire year.
When the Kufi people invited Imam Hussain and alligained with him that they would be HIS partisans and HE should take action against the Umayyads to topple their Caliphate (regime).
When Imam Husain reached at Karbala with his followers, the Kufis breached their promise to Imam Husain and retreated and didn't help the Imam. So, the Imam came to Karbala for the hope of Kufis. The Kufis perjured and the Imam was killed with his partisans.
When the Kufis found out that the Imam had been killed; it was very embarrassing for them that they breached their promise to Imam Husain. They regretted regarding to what happened to Imam Husain. they didn't join Imam Husain the Grand-son of Hazrat Muhammad the Mulims prophet. So, they became very regretful that the grand-son of Hazrat Muhamad martyred and they proved their disloyalty to the world. Therefore, they repented what they acted against the Imam and began to mourning. Essentially, the killers of the Imam were the Kufis that they didn't help HIM and after his martyrdom they began to mourn.
Imam Husain was killed physically but not spiritually. His NOOR of Imamat manifested and transferred to Imam Zain al-Abideen and HIS NOOR transferred seed after seed and generation after generation to the 49th Imam of the Time. For us (Ismaili) Imam Husain is not dead to mourn. He is alive (Imam Husain is alive. Indeed Imam of the Time is Imam Husain himself).
In conclusion I can say that the Kufis began to weep not for Imam Husain martyrdom but for their repentance of breaching their promise. They wept and mourned every year and this action transferred to thier generations. and after that some other people immitated them and up to now the Ithna Asharis(Twelvers) came under the influence of the Kufis and up to now they are mourning. Thier has been martyred thousands of Messengers. If we mourn for the death of each it will take the entire year.
Last edited by nowroozalisabiti on Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
The following are interesting facts on the subject at hand that I came across in another forum.
--- In [email protected], Farhan Bukhari <bukhari171@...> wrote:
FACTS AND MYTHS ABOUT MUHARRAM
MUHARRAM is the month with which the Muslims begin their lunar Hijrah Calendar. It is one of the four sanctified months about which the Holy Qur an says, Verily, the number of months with Allah is twelve months (in a year), so was it ordained by Allah on the Day when He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are Sacred ( i.e. the 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th) (Surah Al-Taubah 9:36)
These four months, according to the authentic traditions, are Dhul-Qa dah, Dhul-Hijjah, Muharram and Rajab. All the commentators of the Holy Qur an are unanimous on this point, because the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, in his sermon on the occasion of his Farewell Haj, declared: One year consists of 12 months, of which four are sacred months, three of them are in sequence; Dhul-Qa dah, Dhul-Hijjah, Muharram, and the fourth is Rajab.
The specific mention of these four months does not mean that any other month has no sanctity, because the month of Ramadan is admittedly the most sanctified month in the year. But these four months were specifically termed as sanctified months for the simple reason that their sanctity was accepted by the pagans of Makkah.
In fact, every month, out of the 12, is originally equal to the other, and there is no inherent sanctity that may be attributed to one of them in comparison to the other months. When Allah Almighty chooses a particular time for His special blessings, the same acquires sanctity out of His grace.
Thus, the sanctity of these four months was recognized right from the days of Prophet Ibrahim, peace be upon him. Since the Pagans of Makkah traced their ancestry to Prophet Ibrahim, peace be upon him, they observed the sanctity of these four months and despite their frequent tribal battles, they held it unlawful to fight in these months.
In the Shariah of our Noble Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, the sanctity of these months was upheld and the Holy Qur an referred to them as the sacred months.
Muharram has certain other characteristics special to it, which are elaborated below:-
Fasting
The Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, has said: The best fasts after the fasts of Ramadan are those of the month of Muharram.
Although the fasts of the month of Muharram are not obligatory, yet one who fasts in these days out of his own will is entitled to a great reward by Allah Almighty. The Hadith cited above signifies that the fasts of the month of Muharram are the voluntary fasts (Nafl) that earn the highest reward.
The Hadith does not mean that the reward promised for fasts of Muharram can be achieved only by fasting for the whole month. On the contrary, each fast during this month has merit. Therefore, one should avail of this opportunity as much as he can.
Day of Ashourah
Although Muharram is a sanctified month as a whole, yet, the 10th day of Muharram is the most sacred among all its days. The day is named Ashourah. According to a Companion of the Prophet (peace be upon him) Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them both, when the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, migrated to Madinah, he found that the Jews of Madinah used to fast on the 10th day of Muharram. They said that it was the day on which the Prophet Musa (Moses, peace be upon him), and his followers crossed the sea miraculously and the Pharaoh was drowned in its waters. On hearing this from the Jews, the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, said, We are more closely related to Musa, peace be upon him, than you, and directed the Muslims to fast on the day of Ashoura. (Abu Dawood)
It is also reported in a number of authentic traditions that in the beginning, fasting on the day of Ashoura was obligatory for the Muslims. It was later that the fasts of Ramadan were made obligatory and the fast on the day of Ashoura was made optional. Ayesha, may Allah be pleased with her, has said: When the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, came to Madinah, he fasted on the day of Ashoura and directed the people to fast. But when the fasts of Ramadan were made obligatory, the obligation of fasting was confined to Ramadan and the obligatory nature of the fast of Ashoura was abandoned. Whoever so desires should fast on it and any other (person) who so likes can avoid fasting on it. (Sunan Abu Dawud)
However, the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, used to fast on the day of Ashoura even after the fasting in Ramadan was made obligatory. Abdullah ibn Musa, may Allah be pleased with him, reports that the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, preferred the fast of Ashoura to the fasts of other days and preferred the fasts of Ramadan to the fast of Ashoura. (Bukhari and Muslim)
In short, it is established through a number of authentic Ahadith that fasting on the day of Ashoura is Sunnah of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, and makes one entitled to a great reward.
According to another Hadith, it is more advisable that the fast of Ashoura should either be preceded or followed by another fast. It means that one should fast two days: the 9th and 10th of Muharram or the 10th and 11th. The reason of this additional fast as mentioned by the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, is that the Jews used to fast on the day of Ashoura alone, and the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, wanted to distinguish the Muslim way of fasting from that of Jews. Therefore, he advised the Muslims to add another fast to that of Ashoura.
Some traditions signify another feature of the day of Ashoura. According to these traditions, one should be more generous to his family by providing more food to them on this day as compared to other days. These traditions are not very authentic according to the science of Hadith. Yet, some scholars like Baihaqi and Ibn Hibban have accepted them as reliable.
What is mentioned above is all that is supported through authentic sources about Ashoura.
Misconceptions
However, there are some legends and misconceptions with regard to Ashoura that have managed to find their way into the minds of the ignorant, but have no support of authentic Islamic sources. Some very common of them are: This is the day on which Adam, peace be upon him, was created. This is the day when Prophet Ibrahim, peace be upon him, was born. This is the day when Allah accepted the repentance of Prophet Adam, peace be upon him. This is the day when Qiyaamah (Doomsday) will be established. Whoever takes bath on the day of Ashoura will never get ill.
All these and other similar whims and fancies are totally baseless and the traditions referred to in this respect are not worthy of any credit. Some people take it as Sunnah to prepare a particular type of meal on the day of Ashoura. This practice, too, has no basis in the authentic Islamic sources.
Some other people attribute the sanctity of Ashoura to the martyrdom of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him. No doubt, the martyrdom of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, is one of the most tragic episodes of our history. Yet, the sanctity of Ashoura cannot be ascribed to this event for the simple reason that the sanctity of Ashoura was established during the days of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, long before the birth of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him.
On the contrary, it is one of the merits of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, that his martyrdom took place on the day of Ashoura. Another misconception about the month of Muharram is that it is an evil or unlucky month, for Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, was killed in it. It is for this misconception that people avoid holding marriage ceremonies in the month of Muharram. This is again a baseless concept, which is contrary to the explicit teachings of the Holy Qur an and the Sunnah.
If the death of an eminent person on a particular day renders that day inauspicious for all times to come, one can hardly find a day of the year free from this bad luck because every day is associated with the demise of some eminent person. The Holy Qur an and the Sunnah of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, have liberated us from such superstitious beliefs.
Lamentations & Mourning
Another wrong practice related to this month is to hold the lamentation and mourning ceremonies in the memory of the martyrdom of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him. As mentioned earlier, the event of Karbala is one of the most tragic events of our history, but the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, has forbidden us from holding the mourning ceremonies on the death of any person.
The people of Jahiliyyah (Days of Ignorance) used to mourn over their deceased through loud lamentations, by tearing their clothes and by beating their cheeks and chests. The Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, stopped the Muslims from doing all this and directed them to observe patience by saying Innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji oon . A number of authentic Ahadith are available on the subject. To quote only one of them: He is not from our community who slaps his checks, tears his clothes and cries in the manner of the people of Jahiliyyah. (Sahih Bukhari)
All the authentic jurists are unanimous on the point that the mourning of this type is impermissible. Even Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, shortly before his demise, had advised his beloved sister Zainab, may Allah be pleased with her, not to mourn over his death in this manner. He said, My dear sister! I swear upon you that in case I die you shall not tear your clothes, nor scratch your face, nor curse anyone for me or pray for your death. (Al-Kamil, Ibn Kathir vol. 4 pg. 24)
It is evident from this advise of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, that this type of mourning is condemned even by the person in the memory of whom these mourning ceremonies are held. Every Muslim should avoid this practice and abide by the teachings of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, and his beloved grandson Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him.
Shahid Khan
--- In [email protected], Farhan Bukhari <bukhari171@...> wrote:
FACTS AND MYTHS ABOUT MUHARRAM
MUHARRAM is the month with which the Muslims begin their lunar Hijrah Calendar. It is one of the four sanctified months about which the Holy Qur an says, Verily, the number of months with Allah is twelve months (in a year), so was it ordained by Allah on the Day when He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are Sacred ( i.e. the 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th) (Surah Al-Taubah 9:36)
These four months, according to the authentic traditions, are Dhul-Qa dah, Dhul-Hijjah, Muharram and Rajab. All the commentators of the Holy Qur an are unanimous on this point, because the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, in his sermon on the occasion of his Farewell Haj, declared: One year consists of 12 months, of which four are sacred months, three of them are in sequence; Dhul-Qa dah, Dhul-Hijjah, Muharram, and the fourth is Rajab.
The specific mention of these four months does not mean that any other month has no sanctity, because the month of Ramadan is admittedly the most sanctified month in the year. But these four months were specifically termed as sanctified months for the simple reason that their sanctity was accepted by the pagans of Makkah.
In fact, every month, out of the 12, is originally equal to the other, and there is no inherent sanctity that may be attributed to one of them in comparison to the other months. When Allah Almighty chooses a particular time for His special blessings, the same acquires sanctity out of His grace.
Thus, the sanctity of these four months was recognized right from the days of Prophet Ibrahim, peace be upon him. Since the Pagans of Makkah traced their ancestry to Prophet Ibrahim, peace be upon him, they observed the sanctity of these four months and despite their frequent tribal battles, they held it unlawful to fight in these months.
In the Shariah of our Noble Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, the sanctity of these months was upheld and the Holy Qur an referred to them as the sacred months.
Muharram has certain other characteristics special to it, which are elaborated below:-
Fasting
The Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, has said: The best fasts after the fasts of Ramadan are those of the month of Muharram.
Although the fasts of the month of Muharram are not obligatory, yet one who fasts in these days out of his own will is entitled to a great reward by Allah Almighty. The Hadith cited above signifies that the fasts of the month of Muharram are the voluntary fasts (Nafl) that earn the highest reward.
The Hadith does not mean that the reward promised for fasts of Muharram can be achieved only by fasting for the whole month. On the contrary, each fast during this month has merit. Therefore, one should avail of this opportunity as much as he can.
Day of Ashourah
Although Muharram is a sanctified month as a whole, yet, the 10th day of Muharram is the most sacred among all its days. The day is named Ashourah. According to a Companion of the Prophet (peace be upon him) Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them both, when the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, migrated to Madinah, he found that the Jews of Madinah used to fast on the 10th day of Muharram. They said that it was the day on which the Prophet Musa (Moses, peace be upon him), and his followers crossed the sea miraculously and the Pharaoh was drowned in its waters. On hearing this from the Jews, the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, said, We are more closely related to Musa, peace be upon him, than you, and directed the Muslims to fast on the day of Ashoura. (Abu Dawood)
It is also reported in a number of authentic traditions that in the beginning, fasting on the day of Ashoura was obligatory for the Muslims. It was later that the fasts of Ramadan were made obligatory and the fast on the day of Ashoura was made optional. Ayesha, may Allah be pleased with her, has said: When the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, came to Madinah, he fasted on the day of Ashoura and directed the people to fast. But when the fasts of Ramadan were made obligatory, the obligation of fasting was confined to Ramadan and the obligatory nature of the fast of Ashoura was abandoned. Whoever so desires should fast on it and any other (person) who so likes can avoid fasting on it. (Sunan Abu Dawud)
However, the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, used to fast on the day of Ashoura even after the fasting in Ramadan was made obligatory. Abdullah ibn Musa, may Allah be pleased with him, reports that the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, preferred the fast of Ashoura to the fasts of other days and preferred the fasts of Ramadan to the fast of Ashoura. (Bukhari and Muslim)
In short, it is established through a number of authentic Ahadith that fasting on the day of Ashoura is Sunnah of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, and makes one entitled to a great reward.
According to another Hadith, it is more advisable that the fast of Ashoura should either be preceded or followed by another fast. It means that one should fast two days: the 9th and 10th of Muharram or the 10th and 11th. The reason of this additional fast as mentioned by the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, is that the Jews used to fast on the day of Ashoura alone, and the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, wanted to distinguish the Muslim way of fasting from that of Jews. Therefore, he advised the Muslims to add another fast to that of Ashoura.
Some traditions signify another feature of the day of Ashoura. According to these traditions, one should be more generous to his family by providing more food to them on this day as compared to other days. These traditions are not very authentic according to the science of Hadith. Yet, some scholars like Baihaqi and Ibn Hibban have accepted them as reliable.
What is mentioned above is all that is supported through authentic sources about Ashoura.
Misconceptions
However, there are some legends and misconceptions with regard to Ashoura that have managed to find their way into the minds of the ignorant, but have no support of authentic Islamic sources. Some very common of them are: This is the day on which Adam, peace be upon him, was created. This is the day when Prophet Ibrahim, peace be upon him, was born. This is the day when Allah accepted the repentance of Prophet Adam, peace be upon him. This is the day when Qiyaamah (Doomsday) will be established. Whoever takes bath on the day of Ashoura will never get ill.
All these and other similar whims and fancies are totally baseless and the traditions referred to in this respect are not worthy of any credit. Some people take it as Sunnah to prepare a particular type of meal on the day of Ashoura. This practice, too, has no basis in the authentic Islamic sources.
Some other people attribute the sanctity of Ashoura to the martyrdom of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him. No doubt, the martyrdom of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, is one of the most tragic episodes of our history. Yet, the sanctity of Ashoura cannot be ascribed to this event for the simple reason that the sanctity of Ashoura was established during the days of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, long before the birth of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him.
On the contrary, it is one of the merits of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, that his martyrdom took place on the day of Ashoura. Another misconception about the month of Muharram is that it is an evil or unlucky month, for Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, was killed in it. It is for this misconception that people avoid holding marriage ceremonies in the month of Muharram. This is again a baseless concept, which is contrary to the explicit teachings of the Holy Qur an and the Sunnah.
If the death of an eminent person on a particular day renders that day inauspicious for all times to come, one can hardly find a day of the year free from this bad luck because every day is associated with the demise of some eminent person. The Holy Qur an and the Sunnah of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, have liberated us from such superstitious beliefs.
Lamentations & Mourning
Another wrong practice related to this month is to hold the lamentation and mourning ceremonies in the memory of the martyrdom of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him. As mentioned earlier, the event of Karbala is one of the most tragic events of our history, but the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, has forbidden us from holding the mourning ceremonies on the death of any person.
The people of Jahiliyyah (Days of Ignorance) used to mourn over their deceased through loud lamentations, by tearing their clothes and by beating their cheeks and chests. The Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, stopped the Muslims from doing all this and directed them to observe patience by saying Innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji oon . A number of authentic Ahadith are available on the subject. To quote only one of them: He is not from our community who slaps his checks, tears his clothes and cries in the manner of the people of Jahiliyyah. (Sahih Bukhari)
All the authentic jurists are unanimous on the point that the mourning of this type is impermissible. Even Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, shortly before his demise, had advised his beloved sister Zainab, may Allah be pleased with her, not to mourn over his death in this manner. He said, My dear sister! I swear upon you that in case I die you shall not tear your clothes, nor scratch your face, nor curse anyone for me or pray for your death. (Al-Kamil, Ibn Kathir vol. 4 pg. 24)
It is evident from this advise of Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him, that this type of mourning is condemned even by the person in the memory of whom these mourning ceremonies are held. Every Muslim should avoid this practice and abide by the teachings of the Noble Prophet, peace be upon him, and his beloved grandson Hussain, may Allah be pleased with him.
Shahid Khan
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star_munir
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There are many Farmans which tells not to get involve in Muharam ceremonies.
There is Farman of January 1938 in Karachi of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah in which He tells the He has told many times not to participate in moharam ceremonies. He tells dont divide Islam and protect yourself from the yazid of this time. (KIM 2). There are many Farmans in KIM part 1 in this regard and Farmans are very clear on this subject. Taking tajias on day of Muharam is like insulting Imam as per Farmans. Also there are few stories which are not true but have got associated with the event of Kerbala like insulting Ahle-bayat.
There is Farman of January 1938 in Karachi of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah in which He tells the He has told many times not to participate in moharam ceremonies. He tells dont divide Islam and protect yourself from the yazid of this time. (KIM 2). There are many Farmans in KIM part 1 in this regard and Farmans are very clear on this subject. Taking tajias on day of Muharam is like insulting Imam as per Farmans. Also there are few stories which are not true but have got associated with the event of Kerbala like insulting Ahle-bayat.
The Eternal Hussein
via Home by Brian on 1/7/09
The Alawite catologue of holidays and seasonal devotions, Majmou' al-'Iyad, by Abu Saeed Maymoun ibn Qasem al-Tabrani al-Nusayri, explains an alternative significance to Kerbala. In this passage, the author explains that the Sunnis and exoteric Shiites falsely believe that Hussein was killed at Kerbala. Hussein's case was like that of Jesus according to the Quranic narrative: the people were made to believe that he was killed, but they were deceived by an illusion. In this Alawite narrative, Hanzala ibn As'ad was given the appearance of Hussein and killed in his stead. It is said that Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq referred to Hanzala as "the one who sacrificed himself for a sacrifice" because of his selfless actions on the day of Ashura.
Majmou' al-'Iyad expresses some joy over Kerbala, because it asserts that the events of the day of Ashura liberated Imam Hussein from the appearances of this world, and thus he could remove the weighty clothes of the flesh to assume his eternal form.
The author offers this triumphal vision of Hussein as testimony, attributed to Abu Hussein Muhammed ibn Ali al-Jilli, who received it from his sheikh, Abu Abdullah Hussein ibn Hamdan al-Khuseibi, who attributed it to Abdullah, the brother of Hurr Al-Rubahi, who was with our Master Hussein, peace be upon his mention, on the day of Tafuf: "When the armies of the misguided came and were commanded to lay siege to Sayyidna Hussein, may his peace be upon us, I fled from Kufa in distress. I hastened quickly in my journey, heading for a spring known as the Date Palm Spring. As I approached it I witnessed an amazing sight. I did not recognize our Master Hussein, may peace be upon his mention, in his true gnostic form. I remained there for a time, then set out for the environs seeking the same vision. Along the way to Tafuf, where unbeknownst to me Imam Hussein was under attack at the time, God opened up my sight, and I saw horses rising up to the heavens with riders upon them. The riders were wearing green robes and red turbans fluttering from the earth to the heavens. My eyes were overwhelmed, but God opened my sight and I saw I saw that the horses rising to the heavens with riders on them each had wings and they were flying wing to wing. They ascended in the heavens until they reached the seventh heaven, and God unveiled by sight. I contemplated the people [who were upon the horses] and recognized each of them by their features and characteristics; they were the ones who were with our Master Hussein at Kerbala. I saw my Master Hussein seated upon the uppermost part of the Throne in the earthly form of Hussein, then there was a change in my sight and he was transfigured into a number of forms, some of which I knew and some I didn't know, and he said: 'These twisted and backward people believe that they have overtaken the Conqueror of Conquerors and the recompense of the Day of Judgment. But woe, woe unto them! How many times they will return, from incarnation to incarnation, from error to error, and they should know that I will be waiting. But they will only increase in insolence and arrogance until my emergence in the Incarnation of Incarnations, the Return of Returns, and I will cast them to their final end and the suffering of eternal punishment, and I am Allah al-Ali al-Azeem.'"
Post-comment: For what appears outright blasphemy, the narration bears a lesson in ontology, and this conception of the Imam serves as a model of existence. When the outermost form is removed it reveals a more subtle form, a veil upon a veil. As each successive layer is removed higher levels of sanctity emerge, until the Face of God is revealed. Let us see beyond the offense of the literal text and subsume ourselves in the inner drama highlighted by this wonderful narration. Fascinating note here, that the full text explicitly states that Imam Hussein has incarnated many times, and elsewhere in the text it makes mention of the fact that the similarity in the apparent deaths of Hussein and Jesus are not incidental; they are one and the same personage at the core.
http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/ ... %2Frss.xml
via Home by Brian on 1/7/09
The Alawite catologue of holidays and seasonal devotions, Majmou' al-'Iyad, by Abu Saeed Maymoun ibn Qasem al-Tabrani al-Nusayri, explains an alternative significance to Kerbala. In this passage, the author explains that the Sunnis and exoteric Shiites falsely believe that Hussein was killed at Kerbala. Hussein's case was like that of Jesus according to the Quranic narrative: the people were made to believe that he was killed, but they were deceived by an illusion. In this Alawite narrative, Hanzala ibn As'ad was given the appearance of Hussein and killed in his stead. It is said that Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq referred to Hanzala as "the one who sacrificed himself for a sacrifice" because of his selfless actions on the day of Ashura.
Majmou' al-'Iyad expresses some joy over Kerbala, because it asserts that the events of the day of Ashura liberated Imam Hussein from the appearances of this world, and thus he could remove the weighty clothes of the flesh to assume his eternal form.
The author offers this triumphal vision of Hussein as testimony, attributed to Abu Hussein Muhammed ibn Ali al-Jilli, who received it from his sheikh, Abu Abdullah Hussein ibn Hamdan al-Khuseibi, who attributed it to Abdullah, the brother of Hurr Al-Rubahi, who was with our Master Hussein, peace be upon his mention, on the day of Tafuf: "When the armies of the misguided came and were commanded to lay siege to Sayyidna Hussein, may his peace be upon us, I fled from Kufa in distress. I hastened quickly in my journey, heading for a spring known as the Date Palm Spring. As I approached it I witnessed an amazing sight. I did not recognize our Master Hussein, may peace be upon his mention, in his true gnostic form. I remained there for a time, then set out for the environs seeking the same vision. Along the way to Tafuf, where unbeknownst to me Imam Hussein was under attack at the time, God opened up my sight, and I saw horses rising up to the heavens with riders upon them. The riders were wearing green robes and red turbans fluttering from the earth to the heavens. My eyes were overwhelmed, but God opened my sight and I saw I saw that the horses rising to the heavens with riders on them each had wings and they were flying wing to wing. They ascended in the heavens until they reached the seventh heaven, and God unveiled by sight. I contemplated the people [who were upon the horses] and recognized each of them by their features and characteristics; they were the ones who were with our Master Hussein at Kerbala. I saw my Master Hussein seated upon the uppermost part of the Throne in the earthly form of Hussein, then there was a change in my sight and he was transfigured into a number of forms, some of which I knew and some I didn't know, and he said: 'These twisted and backward people believe that they have overtaken the Conqueror of Conquerors and the recompense of the Day of Judgment. But woe, woe unto them! How many times they will return, from incarnation to incarnation, from error to error, and they should know that I will be waiting. But they will only increase in insolence and arrogance until my emergence in the Incarnation of Incarnations, the Return of Returns, and I will cast them to their final end and the suffering of eternal punishment, and I am Allah al-Ali al-Azeem.'"
Post-comment: For what appears outright blasphemy, the narration bears a lesson in ontology, and this conception of the Imam serves as a model of existence. When the outermost form is removed it reveals a more subtle form, a veil upon a veil. As each successive layer is removed higher levels of sanctity emerge, until the Face of God is revealed. Let us see beyond the offense of the literal text and subsume ourselves in the inner drama highlighted by this wonderful narration. Fascinating note here, that the full text explicitly states that Imam Hussein has incarnated many times, and elsewhere in the text it makes mention of the fact that the similarity in the apparent deaths of Hussein and Jesus are not incidental; they are one and the same personage at the core.
http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/ ... %2Frss.xml
Reza Nejad Introduces Spatial Genealogy of the Ashura Ritual
July 2009
Reza Masoudi Nejad gave a presentation on The Spatial Genealogy of the Ashura Ritual: an introduction on spatial evolution of Shi'i rituals at The Institute of Ismaili Studies on 2 June 2009. He has recently completed his PhD at The Bartlett, Faculty for the Built Environment at UCL.
Dr Nejad seeks a deeper understanding of the Ashura ritual and its spatial dimensions, by explaining the evolution of rituals throughout Shi‘i history as dependent on socio-political changes. In his paper, he shows how society and space interact with each other through rituals.
The Ashura ritual on the 10th day of Muharram is a tradition amongst most Shi‘i communities of mourning the death of Imam Husayn and his followers at Karbala in 680 CE. It has been considered the most significant socio-cultural practice in Persian cities since the Safavid era in the 16th century, when Twelver Shi‘ism became the official state religion in Persia. Dr Nejad noted that Ashura rituals have taken place amongst Shi‘i communities since the 7th century CE.
In times of political repression, these rituals contracted and were only observed in private households. However, during times where the state support was offered to Shi‘i communities, rituals underwent a spatial expansion into the public realm. They became very public, ritualised processions interacting with the urban space. Dr Nejad calls these spatial expansions and contractions ‘spatial evolutions’.
During times of expansion, various rituals such as ta‘zyeh, or religious epic theatre, caused the emergence of new building types such as the Husseiniye and the tek’ye. Performances of ta‘zyeh are given by professional and amateur troupes who stage the death of Imam Husayn and the events leading up to it. The community gathers to watch the performance and it is often accompanied by communal mourning ceremonies.
The enactment process of a historical event manifests itself in shaping the present in certain ways, resonating with the mourners’ experiences. The ceremony is a combination of people and landscape to produce a symbolic spatial awareness.
Dr Nejad does not give an historical description of the evolution of Ashura rituals but an analysis of their spatial genealogy, showing how ritual processions move through Iranian urban spaces where Ithna ‘ashari or Twelver Shi‘i Muslims predominate. He argues that Iranian Modernisation from the 1920s to the 1960s has brought significant changes to the Ashura ritual. This is due to the transformation in the spatial organisation by the rite of urban passage.
Dr Reza Masoudi Nejad is an architect and urban morphologist who completed his MSc in architecture at the University of Tehran in 1996 and his MSc of the Built Environment at the Bartlett UCL in 2003.
http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=110407
July 2009
Reza Masoudi Nejad gave a presentation on The Spatial Genealogy of the Ashura Ritual: an introduction on spatial evolution of Shi'i rituals at The Institute of Ismaili Studies on 2 June 2009. He has recently completed his PhD at The Bartlett, Faculty for the Built Environment at UCL.
Dr Nejad seeks a deeper understanding of the Ashura ritual and its spatial dimensions, by explaining the evolution of rituals throughout Shi‘i history as dependent on socio-political changes. In his paper, he shows how society and space interact with each other through rituals.
The Ashura ritual on the 10th day of Muharram is a tradition amongst most Shi‘i communities of mourning the death of Imam Husayn and his followers at Karbala in 680 CE. It has been considered the most significant socio-cultural practice in Persian cities since the Safavid era in the 16th century, when Twelver Shi‘ism became the official state religion in Persia. Dr Nejad noted that Ashura rituals have taken place amongst Shi‘i communities since the 7th century CE.
In times of political repression, these rituals contracted and were only observed in private households. However, during times where the state support was offered to Shi‘i communities, rituals underwent a spatial expansion into the public realm. They became very public, ritualised processions interacting with the urban space. Dr Nejad calls these spatial expansions and contractions ‘spatial evolutions’.
During times of expansion, various rituals such as ta‘zyeh, or religious epic theatre, caused the emergence of new building types such as the Husseiniye and the tek’ye. Performances of ta‘zyeh are given by professional and amateur troupes who stage the death of Imam Husayn and the events leading up to it. The community gathers to watch the performance and it is often accompanied by communal mourning ceremonies.
The enactment process of a historical event manifests itself in shaping the present in certain ways, resonating with the mourners’ experiences. The ceremony is a combination of people and landscape to produce a symbolic spatial awareness.
Dr Nejad does not give an historical description of the evolution of Ashura rituals but an analysis of their spatial genealogy, showing how ritual processions move through Iranian urban spaces where Ithna ‘ashari or Twelver Shi‘i Muslims predominate. He argues that Iranian Modernisation from the 1920s to the 1960s has brought significant changes to the Ashura ritual. This is due to the transformation in the spatial organisation by the rite of urban passage.
Dr Reza Masoudi Nejad is an architect and urban morphologist who completed his MSc in architecture at the University of Tehran in 1996 and his MSc of the Built Environment at the Bartlett UCL in 2003.
http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=110407
The Karbala Tragedy: Muslim and Non-Muslim Expressions on Imam Hussain (A.S.)
http://simerg.com/2011/12/04/the-karbal ... ssain-a-s/
http://simerg.com/2011/12/04/the-karbal ... ssain-a-s/
Lecture on the esoteric meaning of the martyrdom of Imam Hussein (AS)
http://ismailimail.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... ilimail%29
http://ismailimail.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... ilimail%29
13 December 2014 Shia pilgrims flock to Karbala for Arbaeen climax
Huge numbers of Shia Muslim pilgrims gathered in the Iraqi city of Karbala at the climax of a key festival, despite threats of violence.
Iraq says up to 17 million made the pilgrimage over 40 days this year, more than a million from Iran, and many remained for the ceremony of Arbaeen.
More...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30462820
Huge numbers of Shia Muslim pilgrims gathered in the Iraqi city of Karbala at the climax of a key festival, despite threats of violence.
Iraq says up to 17 million made the pilgrimage over 40 days this year, more than a million from Iran, and many remained for the ceremony of Arbaeen.
More...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30462820
"I had spent more than 20 years in prison, then on one night I decided to surrender by signing all the terms and conditions of government. But suddenly I thought about Imam Hussain and Karbala movement and Imam Hussain gave me the strength to stand for the right of freedom and liberation and I did." - Nelson Mandela
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mazharshah
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
Before late 1930's, Khoja Ismailis of sub continent used to attend Muharram Majaalis, many followed the chest beating processions, they installed the sabeels, distributed food to poor in the name of Imam Hussain and shahidan e
Karbala. Mata Salamat, mother of MSMS also arranged such kind of zanana
(women) majaalis in Bombay and used to wear black attire. Mata Salamat motherof MSMS never become Ismaili. She remained Isna Ashi'ari till her death.
She did excellent work and extended extra ordinary help to poor masses of Ismailis and helped them by all her means. According to her will she was buried in NAJF ASHRAF IN IRAQ. Also, Shah Ali shah is buried in NAJF ASHRAF.
After passing away of Mata Salamat, MSMS ordered to stop Muharram Majaalis
and wearing of black clothing.
Karbala. Mata Salamat, mother of MSMS also arranged such kind of zanana
(women) majaalis in Bombay and used to wear black attire. Mata Salamat motherof MSMS never become Ismaili. She remained Isna Ashi'ari till her death.
She did excellent work and extended extra ordinary help to poor masses of Ismailis and helped them by all her means. According to her will she was buried in NAJF ASHRAF IN IRAQ. Also, Shah Ali shah is buried in NAJF ASHRAF.
After passing away of Mata Salamat, MSMS ordered to stop Muharram Majaalis
and wearing of black clothing.
I am sure many Central Asian Ismailis drink Vodka too. Does that mean this is what Ismailism allowed them to do? You are completely ignorant. Read the Farmans of Jangbar Pehli Musafri, there is no Mohram beating allowed in Ismailism, in fact the Imam made it clear that this was an insult to the Imam to do anything regarding matam and Imam Hussein's death.mazharshah wrote:Before late 1930's, Khoja Ismailis of sub continent used to attend Muharram Majaalis, many followed the chest beating processions.
Before Sultan Muhammad Shah, Imam Ali Shah said "I am Imam Hussein, I am alive". Imam Ali Shah (before 1881) made it clear that those who believed Imam Hussein was dead were not Ismailis. Now from your post, it loks like your ideas are more those of Ithnashris posting in ismaili Forums than of an Ismaili who has read what Imam said in his Farmans.
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mazharshah
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
Admin wrote:I am sure many Central Asian Ismailis drink Vodka too. Does that mean this is what Ismailism allowed them to do? You are completely ignorant. Read the Farmans of Jangbar Pehli Musafri, there is no Mohram beating allowed in Ismailism, in fact the Imam made it clear that this was an insult to the Imam to do anything regarding matam and Imam Hussein's death.mazharshah wrote:Before late 1930's, Khoja Ismailis of sub continent used to attend Muharram Majaalis, many followed the chest beating processions.
Before Sultan Muhammad Shah, Imam Ali Shah said "I am Imam Hussein, I am alive". Imam Ali Shah (before 1881) made it clear that those who believed Imam Hussein was dead were not Ismailis. Now from your post, it loks like your ideas are more those of Ithnashris posting in ismaili Forums than of an Ismaili who has read what Imam said in his Farmans.
Look like you like vodka. If you want I can arrange Russian finest Vodka for you. Some times you people call me sunni, some times isna asha'ri, some times infidel. You and your buddies make up mind.
May be you have visited Pak twice or thrice and I am sure you have not visited the Ismailis in interior Sindh. In Sindh, weather towns or interior there are many Ismaili split familes till to day, in Nizari khoja Ismailis and khoja Isna a'shiries. They are 2nd or 3rd cousins. Check on Britto road Garden area near Nishtar park there are many khoja isna a'shri families related to khoja Ismailis. Same is the case in Thatta district or Jhirak. Even the graves of 72 shaheed Ismaili Fidayens are under control of Khoja Isna a'shries in Jhirak related to khoja Ismailis of Hyderabad and Thatta districts. When I talked to few families about the reasons of split and leaving Ismaili Tariqa, they mentioned various reasons and amongst them was Muharram restrictions by MSMS.
Did I gave wrong information that MSMS's mother was isna asha'ri and is burried in Najaf Ashraf.? In the respect of mother, MSMS was not harsh on the FARMAN of Muharram restrictions. It was only after the the demise of Sarkar Mata Salamat, Imam got strict on Muharram farman.
I have been to Makli, Thatha, Bhambore, Jerrukh, Khyber and many other places of Pakistan and many other places which you do not even know exist in this planet. So please stop throwing names. You do not impress me.
The fact that some Ithnashri took control of the tomb of our 72 Shahids does not make you right. (by the way there was even a photo of Khomeini on the tomb when I visited in 1981)
Furthermore you are talking of Sultan Muhammad Shah's Farmans inventing all kind of excuses to "prove" your point. You have no clue of how harsh the Farmans of Imam Aga Ali Shah were on the subject of Muharam! If you think that Imam's Farmans depend on who is his physical mother or wife, you have no clue that Imam is Noor. Why are you then pretending?
The fact that some Ithnashri took control of the tomb of our 72 Shahids does not make you right. (by the way there was even a photo of Khomeini on the tomb when I visited in 1981)
Furthermore you are talking of Sultan Muhammad Shah's Farmans inventing all kind of excuses to "prove" your point. You have no clue of how harsh the Farmans of Imam Aga Ali Shah were on the subject of Muharam! If you think that Imam's Farmans depend on who is his physical mother or wife, you have no clue that Imam is Noor. Why are you then pretending?
I think at her death Lady Ali Shah was a murid of the Imam. The Imam did not attend her burial according to tradition - the Imams do not attend the burial of their murids.mazharshah wrote: Did I gave wrong information that MSMS's mother was isna asha'ri and is burried in Najaf Ashraf.?
There is a thread on Lady Ali Shah at:
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... y+ali+shah
Farmans of MSMS on this matter...
“Taabut karvaa ey imamoni mashkari karvaa jevu chhe. Koi marelaa maanas no khoto janaazo banaavi, gaam maa feravvo ey mashkari jevu chhe. Tamaaro baap gujri gayo hoy tyaarey bijaa koi tamaaraa baap no khoto janaazo banaavi, maathaa upar raakhi, gaam maa fervey tou, tamney ketlu kharaab laagey?
H. imam Hussein maatey evi ritey khoto janaazo banaavi feravvaamaa aavey, tey ghanu kharaab chhe. Aam karvaa thi sarvey loko mashkari karshey. Taabut banaavi tenu naam ‘imam Hussein’ raakhvu ey ghataarat nathi.”(Guadar 3-4-1905)
To perform Taabut is like ridiculing the Imams. If you create a fake bier and carry it across the town, it is like making fun or joking! If your father died and others made a false bier and carried upon their heads and took it around the town, how bad would it look like?
If in such manner one creates a false bier of Imam Husein and takes it around the town, it is very bad. By making a Taabut and calling it Imam Husein is not appropriate.
"Maanaso karbalaa ma jainey shaa maatey potaano vakhat fokat gumaavey chhe?Hazrat imam Hussien jamatkhana ma biraajey chhe, tyaa aavo".(Jangbaar taarik:- 30-8-1905)
Why do people go to Kerbela and waste their time? Imam Husein is present in JK, come there!
“Taabut karvaa ey imamoni mashkari karvaa jevu chhe. Koi marelaa maanas no khoto janaazo banaavi, gaam maa feravvo ey mashkari jevu chhe. Tamaaro baap gujri gayo hoy tyaarey bijaa koi tamaaraa baap no khoto janaazo banaavi, maathaa upar raakhi, gaam maa fervey tou, tamney ketlu kharaab laagey?
H. imam Hussein maatey evi ritey khoto janaazo banaavi feravvaamaa aavey, tey ghanu kharaab chhe. Aam karvaa thi sarvey loko mashkari karshey. Taabut banaavi tenu naam ‘imam Hussein’ raakhvu ey ghataarat nathi.”(Guadar 3-4-1905)
To perform Taabut is like ridiculing the Imams. If you create a fake bier and carry it across the town, it is like making fun or joking! If your father died and others made a false bier and carried upon their heads and took it around the town, how bad would it look like?
If in such manner one creates a false bier of Imam Husein and takes it around the town, it is very bad. By making a Taabut and calling it Imam Husein is not appropriate.
"Maanaso karbalaa ma jainey shaa maatey potaano vakhat fokat gumaavey chhe?Hazrat imam Hussien jamatkhana ma biraajey chhe, tyaa aavo".(Jangbaar taarik:- 30-8-1905)
Why do people go to Kerbela and waste their time? Imam Husein is present in JK, come there!
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mazharshah
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
Admin wrote:I have been to Makli, Thatha, Bhambore, Jerrukh, Khyber and many other places of Pakistan and many other places which you do not even know exist in this planet. So please stop throwing names. You do not impress me.
The fact that some Ithnashri took control of the tomb of our 72 Shahids does not make you right. (by the way there was even a photo of Khomeini on the tomb when I visited in 1981)
Furthermore you are talking of Sultan Muhammad Shah's Farmans inventing all kind of excuses to "prove" your point. You have no clue of how harsh the Farmans of Imam Aga Ali Shah were on the subject of Muharam! If you think that Imam's Farmans depend on who is his physical mother or wife, you have no clue that Imam is Noor. Why are you then pretending?
Be cool. You are a superman, can visit unknown places on planet earth.
Did I mentioned wrong about 72 Ismail shaheeds? That tomb is under control of khoja isna a'shiris till today. Please read the farmans of MSMS prior 1940's and after 1940's you will feel difference. Prior to 1940's are soft on Muharram subject. Mostly the things I mentioned heard during lectures or waizes.
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mazharshah
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:08 pm
kmaherali wrote:Farmans of MSMS on this matter...
“Taabut karvaa ey imamoni mashkari karvaa jevu chhe. Koi marelaa maanas no khoto janaazo banaavi, gaam maa feravvo ey mashkari jevu chhe. Tamaaro baap gujri gayo hoy tyaarey bijaa koi tamaaraa baap no khoto janaazo banaavi, maathaa upar raakhi, gaam maa fervey tou, tamney ketlu kharaab laagey?
H. imam Hussein maatey evi ritey khoto janaazo banaavi feravvaamaa aavey, tey ghanu kharaab chhe. Aam karvaa thi sarvey loko mashkari karshey. Taabut banaavi tenu naam ‘imam Hussein’ raakhvu ey ghataarat nathi.”(Guadar 3-4-1905)
To perform Taabut is like ridiculing the Imams. If you create a fake bier and carry it across the town, it is like making fun or joking! If your father died and others made a false bier and carried upon their heads and took it around the town, how bad would it look like?
If in such manner one creates a false bier of Imam Husein and takes it around the town, it is very bad. By making a Taabut and calling it Imam Husein is not appropriate.
"Maanaso karbalaa ma jainey shaa maatey potaano vakhat fokat gumaavey chhe?Hazrat imam Hussien jamatkhana ma biraajey chhe, tyaa aavo".(Jangbaar taarik:- 30-8-1905)
Why do people go to Kerbela and waste their time? Imam Husein is present in JK, come there!
I know these farmans by MSMS. You can feel mode of explainetion is soft by Imam but after 1940's there was strict Hidayat by MSMS TO STOP ALL SUCH KNID OF ACTIVITIES DURING MUHARRAM.
Karbala: visiting the site of Islam's greatest tragedy
Zofeen T. Ebrahim — Updated a day ago
As I observed the roza of the Prophet Mohmmad's (PBUH) grandson Imam Hussain in Karbala, it seemed surreal that I was actually here.
People visiting the haram can do as they please – eat, sleep, walk, pray – as long as they respect the rules laid down by caretakers of the shrine, which are mainly for security reasons and keeping the area clean.
A common sight is people taking selfies with the shrine’s golden domes that provide the perfect backdrop.
You can also have your photograph taken by professionals who are usually seen scouting pilgrims.
On one side, groups of men recite nohas and do matam.
The atmosphere is peaceful, as everyone is involved in their own activities.
Children, indifferent to the sanctity of the place and the sombre mood, run around laughing and shrieking as they do. What's good is that nobody admonishes them for their behaviour.
There are separate toilets and ablution areas for men and women.
Drinking water is available everywhere.
While there are arrangements to give your shoes and valuables for safekeeping, lockers are placed along the shrine’s verandahs. They especially come in handy since cameras and phones are not allowed inside the shrines.
Donation boxes are placed inside the courtyard requesting charity for martyrs or soldiers who were wounded fighting ISIS.
You will experience a language barrier if you do not speak or understand Arabic as only few Iraqis understand English, but you don’t necessarily have to always converse to find your way around as directions to main landmarks are marked in English.
Outside the shrines, the main arteries are lined with restaurants, tea and juice stalls, and sweet shops. Inside the narrow alleys, shops sell goods from China, Turkey and India.
You can buy abayas, scarves, jainamaz, sajdagah, rosary, kaffan cloth, incense holders, framed photos and mugs of Imam Hussain, Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Abbas, as well as selfie-sticks.
Dustbins, placed every few feet, are routinely emptied. At night when the crowd gets thinner, the roads are washed.
The security is strict once you enter the cool interiors of the shrine. There is a separate curtained room which women have to pass through, while for men it's open. Women are frisked and their handbags are checked carefully. Lipstick, nail polish and other cosmetics are not allowed. Security also checks if women have their heads completely covered before going inside. If they find you wearing makeup, they provide you with wet tissues to wipe before you are allowed to enter the mosque and the shrine.
Once inside, everyone’s goal is to touch the zarih (the outer enclosure of Imam Hussain’s grave) in midst of the huge crowd. There's a lot of pushing and shoving, and there's a real chance of getting trampled, as people who were standing calmly next to you in the line outside suddenly lose it once inside the shrine. They do not care if they have jabbed their elbows into someone's rib, broken a toe nail, almost suffocated the person caught in between or pulled down or torn off someone's head gear. You need to have an escape plan when you find yourself plastered between people.
Despite all, the cool, airy interiors of the shrine are a welcome respite. The beautiful Persian carpets are clean despite the huge number of pilgrims visiting around the clock. Sajdahgahs are strewn about on the carpet and are stepped on by women although there are boxes kept for them to be placed. If you stay inside the shrine long enough, you'll see that the carpets are routinely vacuumed. The women's section is vacuumed by women while the public place is taken care of by men.
The walls of the shrine are lined with shelves with prayer books in Arabic and Persian. It would be wonderful if the caretakers would keep some English translations as well.
Karbala remains a deeply religious experience and vast majority of the pilgrims believe that it is an invitation by the Imam to visit Karbala and pay their respects.
Photos at:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1288386/karbal ... st-tragedy
Zofeen T. Ebrahim — Updated a day ago
As I observed the roza of the Prophet Mohmmad's (PBUH) grandson Imam Hussain in Karbala, it seemed surreal that I was actually here.
People visiting the haram can do as they please – eat, sleep, walk, pray – as long as they respect the rules laid down by caretakers of the shrine, which are mainly for security reasons and keeping the area clean.
A common sight is people taking selfies with the shrine’s golden domes that provide the perfect backdrop.
You can also have your photograph taken by professionals who are usually seen scouting pilgrims.
On one side, groups of men recite nohas and do matam.
The atmosphere is peaceful, as everyone is involved in their own activities.
Children, indifferent to the sanctity of the place and the sombre mood, run around laughing and shrieking as they do. What's good is that nobody admonishes them for their behaviour.
There are separate toilets and ablution areas for men and women.
Drinking water is available everywhere.
While there are arrangements to give your shoes and valuables for safekeeping, lockers are placed along the shrine’s verandahs. They especially come in handy since cameras and phones are not allowed inside the shrines.
Donation boxes are placed inside the courtyard requesting charity for martyrs or soldiers who were wounded fighting ISIS.
You will experience a language barrier if you do not speak or understand Arabic as only few Iraqis understand English, but you don’t necessarily have to always converse to find your way around as directions to main landmarks are marked in English.
Outside the shrines, the main arteries are lined with restaurants, tea and juice stalls, and sweet shops. Inside the narrow alleys, shops sell goods from China, Turkey and India.
You can buy abayas, scarves, jainamaz, sajdagah, rosary, kaffan cloth, incense holders, framed photos and mugs of Imam Hussain, Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Abbas, as well as selfie-sticks.
Dustbins, placed every few feet, are routinely emptied. At night when the crowd gets thinner, the roads are washed.
The security is strict once you enter the cool interiors of the shrine. There is a separate curtained room which women have to pass through, while for men it's open. Women are frisked and their handbags are checked carefully. Lipstick, nail polish and other cosmetics are not allowed. Security also checks if women have their heads completely covered before going inside. If they find you wearing makeup, they provide you with wet tissues to wipe before you are allowed to enter the mosque and the shrine.
Once inside, everyone’s goal is to touch the zarih (the outer enclosure of Imam Hussain’s grave) in midst of the huge crowd. There's a lot of pushing and shoving, and there's a real chance of getting trampled, as people who were standing calmly next to you in the line outside suddenly lose it once inside the shrine. They do not care if they have jabbed their elbows into someone's rib, broken a toe nail, almost suffocated the person caught in between or pulled down or torn off someone's head gear. You need to have an escape plan when you find yourself plastered between people.
Despite all, the cool, airy interiors of the shrine are a welcome respite. The beautiful Persian carpets are clean despite the huge number of pilgrims visiting around the clock. Sajdahgahs are strewn about on the carpet and are stepped on by women although there are boxes kept for them to be placed. If you stay inside the shrine long enough, you'll see that the carpets are routinely vacuumed. The women's section is vacuumed by women while the public place is taken care of by men.
The walls of the shrine are lined with shelves with prayer books in Arabic and Persian. It would be wonderful if the caretakers would keep some English translations as well.
Karbala remains a deeply religious experience and vast majority of the pilgrims believe that it is an invitation by the Imam to visit Karbala and pay their respects.
Photos at:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1288386/karbal ... st-tragedy