Who is Spiritual child of Hazer Imam?

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madaad,

I wonder if one is allowed to define an Ismaili then how he would define an Ismaili or a Murid or a Spiritual child of Hazer Imam.

Any comment regarding Murid or Momim, or any Farman of Imam will be help; I will keep my opinion with me, if any thread or a situation where someone has discussed it before will be welcomed.

Thanks
Shah Je Dedaar
Zubair

[nowroozalisabiti]

Yes, there are distinction between Musulman and Momin. The Quran states: The Arabs came to Hazrat Muhammad (S) and said,” We believed. (Allah says, oh Muhammad!) Tell them that they became Muslim, and doesn’t come Iman(belief) in your hearts yet.”
Musulman means to be submitted or acceptance of the Denn by tongue and Iman means to believe in Deen by heart. There were three kinds of people in the first Islam period.
1. Ones who never accepted the Deen.
2. Ones who accepted the Deen by hypocrisy. They dissimulated in acceptance of the Deen. (They accepted it by tongue not by heart).
3. Ones who accepted the Deen both by tongue and by heart.
The first one annihilated in both worlds (in this world and in the futurity).
The second one rescued their lives in this world. As, they didn’t believe in Deen by heart and didn’t know the concept of Deen, they have no place in the futurity. In Islam terminology they have called Munafiq.
The third ones rescued their lives both in this world and also in the world of futurity.
The first ones are called Kafir, the second ones are called Munafiq, and the thirtd ones are called Momin.
Murid means follower, one who follows the command of Imam and act upon HIS Farameen.
As you know Human Beings are combined of Body and Soul. Thus our body needs to food and growing; our soul needs to be trained as well. We need to the physically food and spiritually food as well. We are the spiritual children of the imam of the Time. The parent can provide food and clothes for his/her children in order to grow up his/her children. Imam also provides us the food. But it is spiritual food. By getting of this food our spirits can grow up. The parents train their children physically, but Imam trains his Murids(followers)spiritually. ( by learning them the true knowledge of the reality)

[zubair_mahamood]

Excellent explanation!

It was about Muslim, Mumin and Murid. Can I ask you what if we put them in this sequence like an Ismaili, Mumin or Murid?

It is possible that they are some people who are Ismaili by name or by birth, who accept Imam by tongue not by heart.

Or

It is possible that they are some people who are not Ismaili by name or by birth, who accept Imam by heart but can’t really express it.

Who is Ismaili, Mumin or Murid?

Thanks
Zubair

[kmaherali]

Who is Ismaili, Mumin or Murid?

Thanks
Zubair

Ya Ali Madad,

This is a personal matter - a matter between a murid and the Imam. Only the Imam knows who are his murids and who are not.

MHI once remarked while he was in Syria that there are many murids who do not even know that they are murids.

[nowroozalisabiti]

YAM
There are three types of people according to the recognition of Imamt concept.
1. Ones who don't accept the Imamt concept. They are in opposite of this concept, and in the terminology of Ismaili they are called Ahl-e-Tuzzad( The Oppositions).
2. Ones who accept the concept of Imamt, but they have no further information. They are called Ahl-e-Tarattub( The Ranked)
3. Ones who know the concept of Imamat by its reality. They are called in Ismaili terminology Ahl-e-Wahdat(the Unitists). So, from the three-mentioned ranks; Ahl-e-Tuzzad, Ahl-e-Tarattub, and Ahl-e-Wahdat, a Murid should come up from the Tarattub rank and should be annihilated in the Nur(Light) of the Imam. It means in the rank of Tarattub, there are existace some doubts in the beleif, but in the Universe of wahdat there no doubt remains in the Minds and Hearts. In the univers of Tarratub: One knows who Imam is. Whose son is he? When did he born? And such questions. But in Universe of wahdat one never thinks about the physical identity of the Imam, but he/she considers the reality of the substance (nature) of the Imam. For further information please see: Rawdhat al-Tasleem (Paradise of Submission) of Nasir al-Deen Tusi.

[kmaherali]

For further information please see: Rawdhat al-Tasleem (Paradise of Submission) of Nasir al-Deen Tusi.

Thanks for drawing our attention to 'Paradise of Submission'. The following is the chapter (tasawwur) which deals with various grades of submission depending upon the nature of the person.

Tasawwur 23 Concerning various kinds of submission.

[§300] The ontological need (ihtlydj) of possible beings for the Necessary Being - may its majesty be exalted - far transcends the scope of man's finite imagination. From the very centre of the earth (markaz-i taht al-thara) unto the outermost extreme of the farthest firmament (falak al-a'ld), even unto the Universal Soul (nafs-i kulli) and the First Intellect ('aql-i awwal), all beings according to their essences and ontological requirements, have been stirred into motion, turning their faces towards their [divine] whole and original principle (hull wa mabda'i khwud). Each being, according to the aptitude it possesses, progresses from inferior to superior degrees, eventually realising its own perfection through submission (tasllm) to that which transcends it.

[§301] For example, when the earth submits itself to the domination of plants so that they can spread their roots therein, extracting their sustenance from, and making use of, the earth's best and most precious substances to nurture themselves, thereby growing tall and manifesting their properties, it effects the transition from the earthly to the vegetative state. [Similarly], when plants submit themselves over to the dominion of animals, so that animals convert them into food and thereby perfect their bodily organism, shape and senses, there ensues a progress from the vegetative to the animal condition. When animals give themselves over to the control of man that he may make use of some of them to nurture himself, gaining physical sustenance and stimulating his animal spirit which provides [or guarantees] sense perception and motion - and [he] may accrue from some [animals] various other benefits and accomplishments - the transformation from the animal to the human condition is thereby effected.

[§302] [The same is the case] when an ignorant and imperfect human being submits himself to the control of a wise and perfect man (insdn-i 'aqil wa kamil) and surrenders to him both his senses and intellect, that is, puts his own will (ikhtiyar) completely in the hands of the other, so that he might, in the manner [his master] considers to be most beneficial, transform him from one condition to another and take him from one place to another, until he reaches the point where he will not wish to die as long as the other wishes to live, nor wish to live as long as the other wishes for death; or if he tells him that bright daylight is the dark of night or that the dark of night is bright daylight, he will not object to this in his heart, nor ask the reason why and wherefore. Once this point has been reached, so that the free will and personal desire of the imperfect and ignorant person have become merged with, and annihilated in, the will and desire of the wise and perfect person, he the [disciple] will have emerged from the pit of ignorance and reached the degree of knowledge.

[§303] That man of perfect intelligence ('aqil-i kdmil) to whom the ignorant imperfect person should submit himself exemplifies the teaching given by the teacher of the rightly-guided mission (da'wat-i hadiya) - may God ensure its stability - whose understanding and judgement are linked to the truth and the truthful master (haqq wa muhiqq). He [the man of perfect intelligence] is not just any wise or learned savant who does not acknowledge the truthful master of the time (muhiqq-i waqt) and is incapable of transcending the boundaries of his own reason and knowledge which he assumes to be [inspired] wisdom and knowledge. Such an attitude would be total unbelief (kufr-i mahd) from which we seek refuge in God. This is because his reason bears but a semblance of reason, being itself unreason and his knowledge [merely of the type of which] it is said, 'Verily, some kinds of knowledge are mere ignorance.'90
[§304] According to the same ontological order, the elements (arkdn) mix and mingle with one another by virtue of their submission to the rotation of the spheres and the irradiation of the stars. The celestial spheres remain in their natural orbit by virtue of their submission to the Universal Soul. The Universal Soul, in turn, attains perfection by virtue of submission to the First Intellect. The pre-eminence of the First Intellect over all other living beings lies in the fact that its submission to the sublime Word (kalima-yi a la) is of superior purity and sincerity [than theirs]; its will, knowledge and power is better than that of other creatures due to its avoidance of associating others with the supreme Divine Word.

[§305] Since the purpose of the emanative effusion (ifddat) of the supreme Word upon the First Intellect was to grant it eternal repose (sukum), absolute perfection and true wisdom, the emanative effusion of the Intellect upon the Soul consisted in the fact that the perfection which was in the Soul's power to receive was granted to it. Similarly, the activity of the Soul in Nature consisted in the fact that the forms of things which the Soul had received from the Intellect would be bestowed on Nature. [Likewise], the action of Nature upon matter lay in bringing into the reality of concrete existence the forms bestowed upon it by the Soul. The final purpose of all such emanations was that [the natural kingdoms], beginning with minerals, would combine with the vegetative [realm], and [the vegetative realm combine] with the animal realm, and [the animal realm] be terminated by humankind. Thus, the chain of being completes its circle in man. Therefore, it is in this fashion that submission (taslim), which is the supreme perfection belonging to the [First] Intellect, came to be the singular property of man.

[§306] As men are different and varied in their aptitudes, their ways [of self-surrender] may be different. Thus, some have said that when a man submits to the lord of the Divine Command (sdhib-i amr), he should be asked: 'Have you done this with full conscious understanding of your submission or blindly?' One may measure his perfection according to the character of his submission (taslim).

[§307] Some have said that insight (baslrat) should precede submission, because any submission without insight is merely imitation (taqlid) and not submission. Others have said that the foundation of the creation of the physical world is set on [the principles of] opposition and gradation (tadddd wa tarattub).91 [When man lives in the realm of] opposition, there is neither insight nor submission. Therein no benefit can be derived either from knowledge or action, and no result is produced by either personal endeavour (jahd) or trust on God (tawakkul); everyone who strives to gain religious knowledge (hama-yi mujtahiddn) falls into error. The reason for this is that [in the realm of opposition], submission is not based on insight, action is not based on knowledge, and religious endeavour is not based on trust in God. In that realm the soul is as if turned upside down (intikas) and is 'in layer upon layer of darkness' (24: 40). Its every activity, whether in thought, word, or deed becomes a descent into the pit of Hell until it reaches the most infernal degree. Therefore, whatever the insight or submission one exercises while in the realm of opposition is, in reality, neither insight nor submission, but rather the semblance of insight and submission.

[§308] In [the realm of] gradation, both insight and submission truly exist. Therein, benefit can be derived from both knowledge and action; results are produced by both righteous endeavour and trust in God, and all those who strive to gain religious knowledge find the truth.
The reason is that in this realm submission is based on actual insight, action is based on knowledge, and religious endeavour is based on trust in God. In this realm, the soul stands upright amid the lights of good things and meritorious acts (anwar-i khayrdt wa hasanat) in such a way that it faces increase without decrease. Its every activity, whether in thought, word and action, elevates it to an ever more superior degree, on up to the supreme and highest degree.

[§309] Now, what is signified by insight (bas.irat) is simply that a man becomes conscious of, and awakens to, the need (ihtiyaj) which lies within his imperfect self, and hence [his need for] a master (mutam-mim wa mukammil) who can bring him to perfection. Once he becomes conscious of this, his insight is perfected and he realises to whom he should submit himself.92 So when he is given certain prescriptions or prohibitions by such a perfect being who grants perfection, he becomes inwardly enlightened (mustabsir) as far as his aptitude permits him, and he will submit to that which he is unable [to understand].93

[§310] If one delves into and begins [to study] some scientific problem as a novice and pupil, one's intention and belief should be that, through the intellectual pleasures one derives from this study, one's faith in submitting to a truthful teacher (mu'allim-i sadiq) will become stronger and purer - not that he should reach a position in knowledge where he knows all that which the true teacher knows. Such [an attitude] would be transgressing the limits of discipleship. We seek refuge from this in God.

[§311] To each of these realms of relative existence corresponds a different type of submission. [For instance], in the realm of physical senses (kawn-i mahsus-i jismani), which is the first [or lowest] rung or degree of existence, the subject sees all the clearly distinguished realities (mutabayanat) in the shape of obscure illusions or similitudes (mutashabahat), and he is obedient to the lusts of the body, subservient to the dictates of nature, and blindly follows the passions of the soul. Then, on the second rung or degree of existence, which is that of spiritual imagination (kawn-i mawhum-i ruhani), the subject has one face turned towards the clearly distinguished realities and another face towards illusions. Here, he sometimes inclines towards worldliness and sometimes attends to the affairs of the Hereafter. [Lastly], in the realm of [purely] intelligible existence (kawn-i mawjud-i 'aqlani), which is the third degree of existence where degrees extend into infinity, the subject beholds all indistinct semblances as clearly distinguished realities. Here, he sees both the master of truth (muhiqq) and the truth (haqq) itself resplendent in the aura of divine wisdom, free from vain speculation and satanic fantasies.

[§312] The submission of people of the realm of the physical senses is an artificial submission (tasllm-i tasannu'l) under legal constraints, the submission of the denizens of the realm of the spiritual imagination is voluntary (ikhtiyan), and the submission of people of the realm of intelligible existence is an entirely natural one (tabi'i).

[§313] Artificial submission made under legal constraints is when someone says something out of financial need, or [out of fear for his] life, or for some other reason, specifically for his own benefit to satisfy his own desire and purpose, but in his heart nothing in fact corresponds to his exterior utterances [i.e., he is not sincere in his submission].

[§314] Voluntary submission is, for example, someone who is busy in this world with something, in perfect happiness and serenity, and with no ulterior motive. Suddenly, the command of the truthful teacher (amr-i mu'allim-i sddiq) reaches him, saying that he should abandon all this and throw himself into the most unbearable hardship and difficulty. At first he resents this and is offended. Eventually however, he overcomes the effects of that resentment and offence, turns back to his faith and the divine mission (da'wat-i haqq), realising that if he does not do what he says wholeheartedly and with no reluctance or compulsion, he will be existentially lower than the base mineral, that both his religious and worldly life will dissolve away 'like scattered motes (25: 23), and he will miss the purpose of both this life and the next. Therefore he will at once wholeheartedly, with the purest of intentions and the utmost sincerity, renounce all that was the source of his [worldly] comfort, choosing to abide by his teacher's will rather than follow his own preference.

[§315] Natural submission is not within the reach of every pupil. It is reserved specifically for the hujjats and the truthful Imams (imamdn-i haqq) - may salutations ensue upon mention of them - because their visions are enlightened by the light of primordial conscience (fitrat) which shines especially upon them from the horizon of divine assistance (ta'yld). Things are to be seen there that few hearts can withstand.
[§316] As our lord Zayn al-'Abidin - may salutations ensue upon mention of him - said:

O God, You created us from frailty, built us up from feebleness, and began us from 'mean water (77:20). We have no strength except through Your power and no power except through Your help. Help us to succeed, guide us the right way, blind the eye of our hearts towards everything opposed to Your love, and set not in any of our limbs passage to disobeying You.94

[dchandani]

so what is the difference between a murid and a momin?

[kmaherali]

so what is the difference between a murid and a momin?

This is a very interesting question.

Momin is derived from the root amana which means to be secure. A momin is thus someone who is secure in the presence and knowledge of God and reflects this security in every thought and deed.

A murid is the one who is desirous (of spiritual realization) and usually expresses this desire by becoming a disciple in a Sufi order. Discipleship is considered a fast track towards realization.

Hence a murid aspires to become a momin through a teacher - the Murshid with whom he is bonded spiritually and materially.

[zubair_mahamood]

Ya Ali Madad,

It is our negligence or poor education? That we limit Ismailies only to Jamatkhana … look what I found!

My First Meeting With the Ismailis in Persia
By Prof. W. IVANOW

I came in touch with the Ismailis for the first time in Persia, in February 1912. The world was quite different then. No one imagined that the Great World War I, with all its misery and suffering, was just round the corner. Persia was still living in her ancestral mediaeval style, and her affairs were largely going on in their traditional ways, as they were going on for centuries.

I was riding from Mashhad to Birjand, in Eastern Persia; travelling by day and taking shelter at night in the villages that were situated along the road. Icy winds blow in that part of the country in winter, raising clouds of dust and sand which make the journey a real torture. Tired and hungry, I arrived at the village of Sedeh, and was very glad to take shelter in the hut of a peasant. I sat warming myself by the side of a fire awaiting food which was being prepared for me. A man entered, conveying to me the invitation of the local landlord to shift to his house and accept his hospitality. It was, indeed, very kind of him, but, unfortunately, his invitation came a bit too late. To think of packing everything, shifting and again unpacking in another house, and especially after being tied hand and foot by observances of the old Persian etiquette, it was quite unbearable. I therefore declined the invitation with thanks, promising that after a rest I would personally go to see the landlord and convey my thanks to him. This I did later on, and enjoyed a very interesting and instructive talk.

Already in Mashhad I had often heard about these localities being populated by the followers of a 'strange sect'. My inquiries could not elicit any reliable information. Some people told me that the 'strange sect' were the Ismailis, but I disbelieved it, having been brought up on the idea, universally accepted by Oriental scholars in Europe, that all traces of Ismailism in Persia were swept away by the brutal Mongols. And here, taking the opportunity of a conversation with the landlord on the spot, I tried to ascertain the truth. To my surprise, he confirmed what I had heard before, stating that the people really were Ismailis, and that the locality was not the only seat of the followers of the community but there were other places too in Persia in which they were found.

It was an interesting and surprising discovery. My young enthusiasm was so much aroused that I at once made determined attempts to ascertain the doctrine of the community, inquired about their religious books, etc. In all this I had to suffer a complete defeat as a result of the patriarchal and mediaeval conditions in the country. The Ismailis were extremely reticent in this respect. Only exception would admit their being the Ismailis. By far the greatest majority would simply deny any connection with them, and only now and then would show some knowledge of the matter, explaining this by their former contact with the community.

My learned friends in Europe plainly disbelieved me when I wrote about the community to them. It appeared to them quite unbelievable that the most brutal persecution, wholesale slaughter, age-long hostility and suppression were unable to annihilate the community which even at its highest formed but a small minority in the country. Only later on, however, when my contact with them grew more intimate, I was able to see the reasons for such surprising vitality. It was their quite extraordinary devotion and faithfulness to the tradition of their ancestors, the ungrudging patience with which they suffered all the calamities and misfortunes, cherishing no illusions whatsoever as to what they could expect in life and in the contact with their majority fellow countrymen.

They with amazing care and devotion kept through ages burning that Light, mentioned in the Koran, which God always protects against all attempts of His enemies to extinguish It. I rarely saw anything so extraordinary and impressive as this ancient tradition being devoutly

preserved in the poor muddy huts of mountain hamlets or poor village in the desert. Of course, this tradition was not what it was at the time when it was in the forefront of the civilised world of its time, under the early Fatmid Caliphs of Egypt. Much has been forgotten and lost. But what is the most valuable, the spirit which animated those ancient philosophers and devotees has not become extinct. The illiterate peasant, often famishing and always suffering from privations and oppression of the changing Persian regimes, in his inner consciousness preserves the spark of the same light which illuminated the path to the cultural progress of many people .

"Disasters continue to fall upon a Momin in his life, property and issue, till he meets Allah with no sin in him (after death)." -Prophet Muhammad.



"MY KHALOO MURIDS"

"I have my followers in Iran who are known as Khaloos. If they said they were Ismailis, they would be put to death. They observe TAQUIA. Such are my true Murids. In spite of the dangers they face in that country they continue to practice the Ismaili faith secretly and preserve the religious traditions. They never fail prey to the deceiving tricks of the Satan. They have neither heard my Firmans nor have they had my Zaheri Didar; but they always have my Batuni Didar and never follow the path of the devil.

See how my Arab, Syrian and Khaloo Murids live in places where the rulers are non-Ismailis. They suffer great persecution at the hands of the enemies. They live in places where they are in very small minority but they remain firm on their religion and do not renounce their faith."


"LOVE HAZAR IMAM"

"You will have no fear in this world if you love the descendants of Muhammad and Ali. This one hint includes all the beauties of prayers and religion."

-IMAM MOWLANA SULTAN MUHAMMD SHAH


shah je dedaar
Zubair Mahamood

[BUIteacher23]

in that case it looks like I'm going to hell even though I'm at #2 and sometimes between 2 and 3. Why do there have to be categories for acceptance into heaven? It's so limiting and does not take into account any diversities and changing contexts of society we're living in. I guess because I don't agree with the meaning of asha ji, you know, the verses where it says if you doubt you'll go to hell, and if you don't listen to the pirs(right when did they become imams?) you'll go to hell. I thought Islam was supposed to be about peace and I continue trying to be a good person but I can see why people think Islam is bad, all these references to hell. Why not just focus on the positivity and reaching for the High Heavens and trying to be a good person based on character and NOT how you choose to believe and interpret Islam. Did you know some atheists and agonistics don't believe in god at all and are the nicest, sweetest people ever? And some totally religious people out there are the biggest hypocrites and don't know how to respect other people and their difference? See where I'm going with this....

Here we have missionaries trying to sound up to date by telling us all about pluralism and all that stuff, would different and even contradictory ways of believing keep us from reaching up there just because we choose not to be in a category.

We can love the imam all we want, but people have a problem distinguishing whether he's a guide or he's God. If they call him the latter and believe they're devoted, they're contradicting Sura Iklas and might as well convert back to Hinduism. I totally respect believe in the Imam AS A GUIDE DESCENDED FROM THE PROPHET but I certainly don't go around kissing his picture, thinking about him all day and praying to it though I do take his firmans seriously and I don't go to khane much because it doesn't benefit me much, except for a compliment or two about what I'm wearing. I know he exists and I believe in the whole concept and try to live a peaceful life but I don't feel like i have to give up everything else in life just to do this. And yet when he says balancing material and spiritual, that can be interpreted differently.