link between Jesus and MHI

Discussion on doctrinal issues
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boubou1512
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:14 am

link between Jesus and MHI

Post by boubou1512 »

YAM
I recently read the Book Da Vinci Code and there are some questions that i can't answer. Maybe it will make you reflect o­n the subject.

in the book, they talk about Jesus' wife blood line. In an interview, Sultan Mohammad Shah has said that he was Jesus, Prophet Muhammad and Ali. According to that, you can say that there is a link Between MHI and Jesus. If this link exists, then maybe MHI is in Jesus' Blood line, which means that there might be a link between Prophet Muhammad and Jesus. and if it is so, then maybe one day, the christians will become Ismaili...but of course this is all a theory


what do you all think about??
skaswani
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:53 am

Post by skaswani »

YA ALI MADAD

bahi.. my brother, that was just a movie it was fiction not real,
2nd,

in Quran Allah says Allah is Noor
in Quran Allah says Prophet is Noor
in Quran Allah says Book (al Quran) is Noor

what does this mean, Source of Information & Guidence

one more point

in Bible Jesus pbuh said "I (Jesus) and my Father are One"

one in what?? Purpose ..

All Imams & Prophet sent to purify Human kind,

so, in same way, Jesus, Moses, Adam, Mohmmand, Ali & all are same (in purpose)



REGARDS
YA ALI MADAD
Krim
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:29 am

Re: link between Jesus and MHI

Post by Krim »

YAM,

Well can u please tell me what exactly there is in that Book, cause i have heard alot about it... recently i red in the news that people were protesting against the release of the film....
yeh iam surely gonna go and get this book n have a read.

lemme me know some important points if u can.

U Take Care.

Bai-Bai

~Krim~





boubou1512 wrote:YAM
I recently read the Book Da Vinci Code and there are some questions that i can't answer. Maybe it will make you reflect o­n the subject.

in the book, they talk about Jesus' wife blood line. In an interview, Sultan Mohammad Shah has said that he was Jesus, Prophet Muhammad and Ali. According to that, you can say that there is a link Between MHI and Jesus. If this link exists, then maybe MHI is in Jesus' Blood line, which means that there might be a link between Prophet Muhammad and Jesus. and if it is so, then maybe one day, the christians will become Ismaili...but of course this is all a theory


what do you all think about??
bruthayusuf
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 9:16 pm

Post by bruthayusuf »

ya ali madad

all the prophets & all the imams are of one soul. they are like one divine person. they are the "light upon light" referred to in al qur'an. also, all the believers (auliya') of the imamate are united in this mystical body of light. hence, aga khan III is absolutely correct.

brutha yusuf
star_munir
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Post by star_munir »

This movie is against Jesus Christ thats why people in India are asking for its ban.
Following is one article related to it.

'Da Vinci Code' crew says it's entertainment not theology

By ANIL WANVARI


(17 May 2006 9:00 pm)

CANNES: The maker of The Da Vinci Code – director Ron Howard – and the cast and crew today stated that it is the media, which is looking for a story that has created the hype around the so called religious controversy. "The controversy has actually been very limited," says Alfred Molina, who plays the part of Bishop Aringarosa. document.write("")

Tom Hanks, Audrey Tautou and Ron Howard at Cannes (Picture from www.canada.com)
The film, which has created a storm in India with news channels and newspapers giving blanket coverage to the calls for the movie to be banned, is no stranger to controversy. Information and broadcasting minister Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi on Tuesday said that he "will not allow the controversial film Da Vinci Code to be screened unless representatives of Catholic churches along with the Censor Board watch the movie and clear it.

Even for newly launched English movie channel from the Sony stable SET Pix (Sony Pictures is distributing the film worldwide), the hullabaloo has come as a big dampener. Amongst other marketing activities it had planned, it had also scheduled a special screening of the movie in Mumbai for the cable and media fraternity on Saturday.

Speaking to the media after the film's screening Howard said, "Right from the beginning I expected controversy. We were talking about a global bestseller," said Howard. "We were expecting it to be upsetting to some people. But we cannot forget that this is a piece of fictional entertainment people who have not seen the movie are talking about. What I would tell them is see the movie and then form your opinion. And if you are going to be upset by the movie don't watch it. The movie will arouse different reactions from various people. We wanted to stir debate, we wanted people to think."


Added Tom Hanks: "This is not theology, it is entertainment, and if people can remember that, it will be good. It is a piece of commercial cinema."
When asked if the religious community put any pressure on him before he enacted the role of Robert Langdon, Hanks said, "Thankfully, brains score over emotion and fiction."
Ian McKellen, who essays the role of Sir Leigh Teabing added in lighter vein that the fact that Jesus was married puts to rest the speculation that he was gay. Tom Hanks avoided the question saying that he was not around then.
As far as box office goes, Howard said that his partner in Imagine Entertainment expected the movie to do well. His partner Brian Glasser, who begins work on Imagine's next project American Gangster with Russel Crowe and Samuel Jackson in Harlem two months from now, said he expects it to do very well. "A big winner," he said.
That remains to be seen though. With calls for bans and the like coming in from across the globe as well as the tepid reviews the film has been getting, the producers might be hoping for a miracle in expecting that viewers will flock into the theatres.
s786
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Post by s786 »

I just saw the movie and must say it's an amazing theory. The movie is not one bit "against" Jesus Christ. It is rather a conspiracy theory, simple ficton. Those who choose to believe it may, and those who choose not to, may do so as well. It's definitely something to think about, regardless of our religious backgrounds. The only thing the movie may be against is the doctrines of the Catholic Church, but then again who says the majority is always right? I think we can echo these sentiments when it comes to Islam and the various different sects. Mainly the Sunnis and Shias.

Back to the original question of this topic. I too would be very interested to know whether the portion of the movie that speaks about there being a living descendant of Jesus Christ can be linked to MHI.

That is if we say the "theories" are true :wink:
star_munir
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Post by star_munir »

Jesus has never married. Jesus is not Imam. Jesus was Prophet. Imam at that time was Simon Peter.
yaali101
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Post by yaali101 »

star_munir wrote:Jesus has never married. Jesus is not Imam. Jesus was Prophet. Imam at that time was Simon Peter.
Wow, you see to be very certain of this. Where you alive back then, too? What was your name? LOL, I am just pulling you leg there buddy. I agree with you in saying Jesus was just a prophet. I cannot say for certain if he was releated to the Imam, but I have heard the theory around Simon Peter. I am, however, not sure if there was an Imam at that time. Hazar Imam in an interview once said that he did not know he would be the next Imam when he was asked if he knew if he would be the next Imam. I am sure the Imam would not lie to the reporters as he is above all in this world and does not need to lie to anyone. I come from an India/Paki background where many of the people believe in the whole das avataar/ reincarnation. I have change my opinion around this because I believe that god is great – he does not need to bring someone back into this world to punish them. In all his greatness do you not believe that he can just create another world if he will? Even 20 billion more? But this is all another point. If anyone has any substantial proof around if there were Imams before prophet Mohammed PBUH, then please do let me know.
kandani
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Post by kandani »

Ya Ali Madad,

Yes, there were Imams around before PM and there is a lot of proof - especially from the Old Dua.

on the issue of the Imam contemporary to Jesus, most Ismaili sources name Mawlana Khuzaymah was the Imam of the Time. (Khuzaymah is one of the historically known forefathers of Imam Ali).

Contact me in private - [email protected] - if you wish to discuss this further.
unnalhaq
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Post by unnalhaq »

allofya wrote:...you in saying Jesus was just a prophet.
Or The Imam is a guide. Or Mohamed was the last messenger.

I think we are missing the MESSEGE while worried about the messenger(s) or the guides...

The message or the destination is more important than the messenger or a guide.

Now let me break it down:
Some years ago I was in Helsinki and wanted to go visit Rome. If you are aware of the geography of Europe you’d know that both cities are separated by water and there is no direct road to and from each other; and I did not have $500.00 to spear for direct flight and a guide to take me there (through Rome) and even though if I had saved the $$ for the direct fight and a guide, it mattered most to me was the destination, it did not matter how I got there.
Think about a check (money or gift or present) that is sent to you in a mail. Do you care about the mailman?

Now before you get irate and post a belligerent reply. I feel the same way when someone refers to any prophet (the ones named in the Nobel Quran and specially the Ahel Al Kitab) as "just a prophet" or "imam is a guide".

OK Back to the Topic at hand:
It can be very simple or can be complex to explain.
Let’s look at it in a simple light that we all are Adam's offspring therefore Jesus and The Imam is linked. There are no doubts even if you were an evolutionist you would agree that all humans had one ancestor.
Complex explanation is will require you to learn the sulwat not the one that is recited in JK but the complete (or complex) sulwat.
star_munir
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Post by star_munir »

Ya Ali Madad

Yaali 101 as you wrote
Wow, you see to be very certain of this. Where you alive back then, too? What was your name? LOL

Were you alive at the time of Hazrat Muhamad (PBUH) and Ali? lolz How do we know about them. From history. As for this movie it is said its not theology but for entertainment.


you said"come from an India/Paki background where many of the people believe in the whole das avataar/ reincarnation. I have change my opinion around this because I believe that god is great – he does not need to bring someone back into this world to punish them. In all his greatness do you not believe that he can just create another world if he will? Even 20 billion more? But this is all another point. If anyone has any substantial proof around if there were Imams before prophet Mohammed PBUH, then please do let me know"

This is discussed under many topics of this forums. If God can do any thing then cant He manifest in world?
As for Imam and Jesus Hazrat Ali said “I am Aeliya of Injeel.” { Note: According to hadiths and Sayings of Ali, the word Eli or Aeliya in Bible is for Ali. Jesus cried with a loud voice,”Eli Eli lama sabch tani?” Which means “My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me?” [Mathew 27/46] }

Hazrat Ali said,“I was hidden with all the Prophets, because the world was not yet ready. But now that the world is prepared, and the people are capable of understanding, I became apparent with Muhammad." [ Ref: Risala darhaqiqat deen]

I agree with view of Unnalhaq that Let’s look at it in a simple light that we all are Adam's offspring therefore Jesus and The Imam is linked. There are no doubts even if you were an evolutionist you would agree that all humans had one ancestor.
nashvelshi
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Post by nashvelshi »

Speaking about the link between MHI and Jesus, some have commented that at the recent visit to Germany by MHI, where he was given an award by a Protestant Christian group, MHI gave his acceptance speech in front of a Christian cross.

During the early years of the Fatimid Caliphate, Abu Yakub Al-Sijistani was the Ismaili Hujjat(Chief Dai) for the Eastern Iranian lands. In his celebrated book "The Wellsprings of Wisdom" and later in his book "Abu Yakub Al-Sijistani:Intellectual Missionary", Professor Paul Walker details Al-Sijistani's Ismaili interpretation of the Christian cross.


In the book by Paul Walker on Al-Sijistani("Abu Yakub Al-Sijistani:
Intellectual Missionary"), published by IIS in 1996, Walker details
Al-Sijistani's interpretation of the Christian cross in detail. For
him, the four points of the cross signify the four wellsprings of
knowledge that together make up the structure of truth: Universal
Intellect, Universal Soul, Natiq and Asas.

Universal Intellect is represented by the top point of the cross
because it is the wellspring from which the other three
wellsprings emanate. Universal Intellect itself was the only thing
to issue from the Absolutely Transcendent Originator(Mubdi) through
the Divine Command('Kun!' or 'Be!') and everything else emanates
from the Universal Intellect, which provides 'tayyid' or divine
infusion or inspiration.

The two lateral points of the cross are analogous to each other and
represent the Universal Soul and Natiq. They are analogous to each
other because they carry out similar functions: they both compose or
incorporate with the inspiration that they receive from Universal
Intellect. Universal Soul composes('tarkib') the material universe
in which we live, move and have our being. Every material creation
has its own little bit of Soul in it, especially individual human
beings, who have the highest, most developed component of Soul(ie,
his own individual soul) in the creation. The Natiq(Speaking
Prophet) also composes but instead of a material creation, Natiq
uses the inspiration he receives from Universal Intellect and
composes('talif') a scripture made up of language and linguistic
symbols. One lateral point of the cross therefore takes Intellect
and incorporates around it a material creation, the opposite lateral
point of the cross takes Intellect and incorporates around it a
written scripture. Both compositions are analogously called 'signs'
or 'ayats'.

The Asas(Founder) occupies the base point of the cross because his
role is to help people return upwards to their foundation. The
entire structure rests on the shoulders, as it were, of the Asas,
who takes the inspiration he receives from Universal Intellect and
applies 'tawil' in order to un-incorporate what the Universal Soul
and Natiq have incorporated or composed(to strip away the 'zahir'
and reveal the 'batin', done using tasty and easy to understand
little nuggets called farmans). Whereas the movement of the
Universal Soul and Natiq is downwards on the cross from Universal
Intellect towards the creation and man, the movement of the Asas is
upwards on the cross back up to Universal Intellect. Because all
three wellsprings receive their inspiration directly from Universal
Intellect(what we call 'Allah' in daily language), in essence the
four wellsprings are One even though they are conceptually seperate.

That is Al-Sijistani's interpretation of the Christian cross and I
think that it is immensely significant that Mowlana Hazar Imam made
that speech in front of the Christian cross because, in that speech,
he refers to the Quranic ayat that all human souls are created from
one Soul, the same ayat that must have inspired Al-Sijistani to
formulate part of his cosmological doctrine in the first place.


The Universal Intellect is purely suprahistorical whereas the Universal Soul is both suprahistorical and historical(the material universe being finite in history and time). Natiq is historical and can refer to any of the six great Prophets who brought a new religious law. Asas is historical and can be the unrevealed Imams before Hazrat Ali and the revealed Imams from Hazrat Ali onwards.
Morg
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Post by Morg »

hazrat isa (as) or better known as jesus , and mohammad (saww) are not related in bloodline as father to son. theyr common forefather is hazrat ibrahim (As) as mohammad saww family tree goes like this

mohammad ibn abdullah ibn abdul mutallib ibn hashim ibn abde manaf ibn qusay ibn kilab ibn kaab ibn loi ibn ghalib ibn Fahr (quraish) ibn malik ibn al-nadr ibn kinana ibn khuzaiman ibn mudrikah ibn elias ibn mudar ibn nizar ibn maad ibn Adnan ibn add ibn humaisi ibn salaman ibn aws ibn buz ibn qamwal ibn obai ibn awwam ibn nashid ibn haza ibn bildas ibn yadlaf ibn tabikh ibn jahim ibn nahish ibn makhi ibn aid ibn abqar ibn ubaid ibn al-daa ibn hamdan ibn sanbir ibn Yathrabi ibn yalhan ibn yahzin ibn arawi ibn aid ibn deshan ibn aisar ibn afnad ibn aiham ibn muksar ibn nahith ibn zarih ibn sami ibn wazzi ibn adwa ibn aram ibn Qaidar ibn ISMAIL ibn IBRAHIM

for isa (As) there are two and probably more family trees. for those who believe that his father were joseph or follow the lineage of his stephfather joseph then this is as followed

isa ibn joseph ibn jacob ibn matthan ibn elezar ibn eliud ibn achim ibn zadok ibn azor ibn eliakim ibn abiud ibn zerubbabel ibn sheltiel ibn jeconiah ibn josiah ibn amon ibn manasseh ibn hezekiah ibn ahaz ibn jotham ibn uzziah ibn joram ibn jehoshaphat ibn asa ibn abijah ibn SULAYMAN IBN DAUD

isa ibn maryam bint heli ibn ... ... hezekiah ibn ahaz ibn jotham ibn uzziah ibn joram ibn jehoshaphat ibn asa ibn abijah ibn SULAYMAN IBN DAUD

these both lienages are then followed as this

daud ibn uwayd ibn isya ibn ufiz ibn yuar ibn salmun ibn yauksaun ibn ummanizab ibn raum ibn hasrun ibn bares ibn JUDAH IBN JAQUB IBN ISHAQ IBN IBRAHIM

thereby hazrat isa (As) was not a ancestor of mohammad saww. and it is believed that isa (As) did not had any children according to muslim hadiths.



this family tree is worked on with the help of information available on the internett, in the books and as personal research by mirza mohammad usman asif mughal. to extend it further or to correct it more please contact at [email protected].
sources as the holy book og quraan, the islamic hadiths the holy book of bible and the holy book of torah were used. as well as gospels and other scriptures sacred to the major abrahamic religions.
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