Ya Ali Madad
Do any one have some information about sati ma roza?what is its historical background or what is its story?
Nowadays it is called as Shah Mowla ka roza.
Sati maa roza
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star_munir
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satimah no rojo
Mowlana Rojo also used to be known as Sataimah jo Rojo because it is performed on the seventh day of the new month (after Chand Raat). As with all other Rites and Ceremonies, it has been established by our Holy Imams.
The popular reason is for Mushkil Asaan for those who keep this Rojo from
dawn to about midday. Actually the majalis for this mandli is done before
midday on that specific day with nyaaz and juro and ginans (or originally
with the Kathiyawaare ji vaarta) or now with Kalam-e-Mowla
As far as we know, only the name has changed but the majalis is still
performed in the same manner - at least in many parts of the world.In
London, England, Majlas is performed in the morning around 10:30, and in
Canada in the evenings.
The popular reason is for Mushkil Asaan for those who keep this Rojo from
dawn to about midday. Actually the majalis for this mandli is done before
midday on that specific day with nyaaz and juro and ginans (or originally
with the Kathiyawaare ji vaarta) or now with Kalam-e-Mowla
As far as we know, only the name has changed but the majalis is still
performed in the same manner - at least in many parts of the world.In
London, England, Majlas is performed in the morning around 10:30, and in
Canada in the evenings.
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star_munir
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Rojo
I haven't read the whole Khathiyaare ji waarta, but from what I can recall, its a story about a woodcutter who had all sorts of calamities fall on him and his family, and then for Muskhil aasan he was told to keep "rojo" and seek help from Ali, and hence understand that Ali is the ultimate savior.
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star_munir
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star_munir
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Satima jo Rojo [the name comes from 7th] is performed the 7thy day of the new moon.
The story of Surbanr , the woodcutter who was the disciple of Pir Shams was recited during the Mijlas for centuries but few decades ago the tradition was lost in the same manner many other traditions are lost. You just need to say Hazar Imam has said this and that and people would not question you.
For example, today you can go to some counties like Afghanistan and tell them "Hazar Imam has said to abandon the Chandraat that you are performing since a century", they will not question, they will just abandon. Or you can tell them "Hazar Imam has said you should close Baitul Khayal" and they will close it. They will not question because they are so innocent that they would not think that someone working closely with the Imam [or pretending to do so] can take the name of the Imam and tell lies to them.... And this is true, some khojas have recently gone to Afghanistan and started corrupting all their past traditions and beliefs, instead of helping the Afghan Jamat to revive them. Even Talibans were not able to do the damage that some khojas are doing there.
In our own jamats, There is already a trend to minimise the importance of Satima jo rojo. People have lost the sens that this mijlas is not only a mijlas of Mushil Assan but it is the highest mijlas in Ismaili faith, higher then any other whose name we know and whose name we do not know.
The truth of Satima jo Rojo is present in many religious traditions beside ours. Just do some research on Mushkil Asaan and Mushkil Khusha [or Mushkil Gusha]. Even Mesopotamian religions had a connection to the celebrations of this mijlas. And I have a lot of respect for the old religions of Mesopotamia which disappear thousands of years ago. I respect them because they had retain even the names of several of our Imams which Pir sadardin has quoted but which can not even be found in Hindu or any other sources.
Nagib
---------------------------------
Here is the first page from the Kathiaro ji Varta published in 1926 in Khojki, the title says Mola jo Mojijo.:
The story of Surbanr , the woodcutter who was the disciple of Pir Shams was recited during the Mijlas for centuries but few decades ago the tradition was lost in the same manner many other traditions are lost. You just need to say Hazar Imam has said this and that and people would not question you.
For example, today you can go to some counties like Afghanistan and tell them "Hazar Imam has said to abandon the Chandraat that you are performing since a century", they will not question, they will just abandon. Or you can tell them "Hazar Imam has said you should close Baitul Khayal" and they will close it. They will not question because they are so innocent that they would not think that someone working closely with the Imam [or pretending to do so] can take the name of the Imam and tell lies to them.... And this is true, some khojas have recently gone to Afghanistan and started corrupting all their past traditions and beliefs, instead of helping the Afghan Jamat to revive them. Even Talibans were not able to do the damage that some khojas are doing there.
In our own jamats, There is already a trend to minimise the importance of Satima jo rojo. People have lost the sens that this mijlas is not only a mijlas of Mushil Assan but it is the highest mijlas in Ismaili faith, higher then any other whose name we know and whose name we do not know.
The truth of Satima jo Rojo is present in many religious traditions beside ours. Just do some research on Mushkil Asaan and Mushkil Khusha [or Mushkil Gusha]. Even Mesopotamian religions had a connection to the celebrations of this mijlas. And I have a lot of respect for the old religions of Mesopotamia which disappear thousands of years ago. I respect them because they had retain even the names of several of our Imams which Pir sadardin has quoted but which can not even be found in Hindu or any other sources.
Nagib
---------------------------------
Here is the first page from the Kathiaro ji Varta published in 1926 in Khojki, the title says Mola jo Mojijo.:
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star_munir
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Aly_shallwani
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Sati maa ka roza
Mowla has told people not to do this majlis but people are not getting it and if Mukhi saheb refuses to do majlis in jamat khana then they do it at their homes which is probably not good at all i dont know why these ladies are doing so if Hazir imam has told us that now there is no need of this majlis>>>>>
Re: Sati maa ka roza
YAM,Aly_shallwani wrote:Mowla has told people not to do this majlis
I think you have not read my posting so here it is again. Mowla has NEVER said that this mijlas should not be performed, if you have such Talika, please give us the reference.
Nagib
=========
Satima jo Rojo [the name comes from 7th] is performed the 7thy day of the new moon.
The story of Surbanr , the woodcutter who was the disciple of Pir Shams was recited during the Mijlas for centuries but few decades ago the tradition was lost in the same manner many other traditions are lost. You just need to say Hazar Imam has said this and that and people would not question you.
For example, today you can go to some counties like Afghanistan and tell them "Hazar Imam has said to abandon the Chandraat that you are performing since a century", they will not question, they will just abandon. Or you can tell them "Hazar Imam has said you should close Baitul Khayal" and they will close it. They will not question because they are so innocent that they would not think that someone working closely with the Imam [or pretending to do so] can take the name of the Imam and tell lies to them.... And this is true, some khojas have recently gone to Afghanistan and started corrupting all their past traditions and beliefs, instead of helping the Afghan Jamat to revive them. Even Talibans were not able to do the damage that some khojas are doing there.
In our own jamats, There is already a trend to minimise the importance of Satima jo rojo. People have lost the sens that this mijlas is not only a mijlas of Mushil Assan but it is the highest mijlas in Ismaili faith, higher then any other whose name we know and whose name we do not know.
The truth of Satima jo Rojo is present in many religious traditions beside ours. Just do some research on Mushkil Asaan and Mushkil Khusha [or Mushkil Gusha]. Even Mesopotamian religions had a connection to the celebrations of this mijlas. And I have a lot of respect for the old religions of Mesopotamia which disappear thousands of years ago. I respect them because they had retain even the names of several of our Imams which Pir sadardin has quoted but which can not even be found in Hindu or any other sources.
Nagib
Sataima Rojo discontinued?
It seems to me inconceivable how a Mandli that takes place in JK would not be sanctioned by MHI. Appointments are made of the Mukhi/Kamadia by himself through his institutions.
As I reflect on his Farmans and speeches, it becomes very apparent to me that rather than giving up centuries of tradition, he is giving more emphasis or their revival and revitalisation.
As I reflect on his Farmans and speeches, it becomes very apparent to me that rather than giving up centuries of tradition, he is giving more emphasis or their revival and revitalisation.
Sati maa ka roja
YA ALI MADAD
I cant remember any taliqa of SMS or MHI in which they told people not to do this majlis at JK.However some other majalis are not to be allowed to do in JK or at home by MHI just like Thari or Rot and some others and they will not perform in last few years in JK but some people perform them at home. But Sati maa ka roja is conduct by the jamat's mukhiyari and kamadiari and not any other mukhi kamadia are appointed for this and it is conducted by the permission of MHI.
Now a days the story is not telling in jamat khana and also the name of this roja is change by the name of SHAH MAWLA KA ROZA or some persons call it MUSHKIL ASAAN KA ROZA because it has a concept of mushkil aasaan.
Yam
I cant remember any taliqa of SMS or MHI in which they told people not to do this majlis at JK.However some other majalis are not to be allowed to do in JK or at home by MHI just like Thari or Rot and some others and they will not perform in last few years in JK but some people perform them at home. But Sati maa ka roja is conduct by the jamat's mukhiyari and kamadiari and not any other mukhi kamadia are appointed for this and it is conducted by the permission of MHI.
Now a days the story is not telling in jamat khana and also the name of this roja is change by the name of SHAH MAWLA KA ROZA or some persons call it MUSHKIL ASAAN KA ROZA because it has a concept of mushkil aasaan.
Yam
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panjwaniamir
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Waez of Abualy Aziz
Ya Ali Madad,
I don't know whether any body got their proper answer on this topic. But what I have heard from Missionary Abualy Aziz's waez that this rojo is not compulsory, and this is not even Shah Mowla jo rojo. Missionary has explained in his waez with the incident of Imam Aga Ali Shah Datar. Plus he also mentioned about the kaathiara ji waarta, which is not even our Ismaili nor Islamic story.
If any body want the waez please let me know, I have already uploaded it at one of the site.
I don't know whether any body got their proper answer on this topic. But what I have heard from Missionary Abualy Aziz's waez that this rojo is not compulsory, and this is not even Shah Mowla jo rojo. Missionary has explained in his waez with the incident of Imam Aga Ali Shah Datar. Plus he also mentioned about the kaathiara ji waarta, which is not even our Ismaili nor Islamic story.
If any body want the waez please let me know, I have already uploaded it at one of the site.
Could you quote what it says about it. You don't have to mention the whole talika. ThanksAdmin wrote:Satmirat jo rojo as Hazar Imam calls it in one of his talika of which I have a copy [in another talika, he calls it Satima jo Rojo], is not a compulsory fast. The fast should only be performed by people who need or want the benefit of the majlis.
Admin
Basically the Degh is the equipment in which the sweet rice is prepared for distribution to the jamat attending the mijlas.
There is a nandi of the Degh and whoever gets it will have the benefit of the distribution of the safran coloured sweet rice distributed. At least this is what is done in Nairobi since centuries.
If you remember the manifestation of the Imam on the day of Satima and keep the half day roja, surely you will reap the benefit. This roja is not compulsory though.
There is a nandi of the Degh and whoever gets it will have the benefit of the distribution of the safran coloured sweet rice distributed. At least this is what is done in Nairobi since centuries.
If you remember the manifestation of the Imam on the day of Satima and keep the half day roja, surely you will reap the benefit. This roja is not compulsory though.
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star_munir
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nagib has shared some interesting information on this topic. From long time, I have not seen his any post in the forum. I wish if he continue...
According to Nagib it is his one of the highest majlis and different religions including Mesopotamian religion had this sort of majlis.
I would like to know the details about the concept of this Majlis is present in different world religions including Mesopotamian religion. As for Islam, Abu Aly missionary had mentioned one small anecdote in Ismaili Tariqah and in his waez. But I would also like to know the concept of it in our Tariqah.
According to Nagib it is his one of the highest majlis and different religions including Mesopotamian religion had this sort of majlis.
I would like to know the details about the concept of this Majlis is present in different world religions including Mesopotamian religion. As for Islam, Abu Aly missionary had mentioned one small anecdote in Ismaili Tariqah and in his waez. But I would also like to know the concept of it in our Tariqah.
"When your need is greater than your want,
Mushkil Gusha will appear and remove all difficulties"
here is a story similar to the one we used to read in Satima jo Rojo [kathiare ji warta]
http://mushkilgusha.org/
Also published in Idries Shah: CARAVAN OF DREAMS, The Octagon Press, London 1968
And in
“The Story of Mushkil Gusha” in Persian Tales, collected and translated by D. L. R. and E. O. Lorimer, Macmillan, London, 1919.
On who is Mushkil Gusha, see the following:
http://www.aaronshep.com/stories/048.html
Mushkil Gusha will appear and remove all difficulties"
here is a story similar to the one we used to read in Satima jo Rojo [kathiare ji warta]
http://mushkilgusha.org/
Also published in Idries Shah: CARAVAN OF DREAMS, The Octagon Press, London 1968
And in
“The Story of Mushkil Gusha” in Persian Tales, collected and translated by D. L. R. and E. O. Lorimer, Macmillan, London, 1919.
On who is Mushkil Gusha, see the following:
http://www.aaronshep.com/stories/048.html
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star_munir
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Sambo, Shambo, Shamboo, Shamba
COMPILATION OF EXTRACTS OF FARAMEEN MUBARAK RELATED TO
SHAMBA
1. I give Mubaraki of Shamba to the entire Jamat.
(Manjevadi - Saturday, December 30, 1893)
2. My body was physically far but remained in remembrance of you Jamat day and night. I accept today the congratulation of the dastbosi of Shamba, not only for once but accept for ten times.
(Bombay – November 28, 1907)
3. I accept your dastbosi of all those Shambas being passed during my physical absence of 18 months.
(Bombay, January 01, 1910)
4. For my true believers (momin), every day is a day of Eid and Shamba.
(Rajkot – February 10, 1923)
5. I accept your dastbosi of all those Shambas being passed away during my five years’ absence from India.
(Bombay, December 15, 1933)
6. I accept the dastbosi of all the ladies, brothers, children etc. of the 52 Shambas equal to one year.
(Kisumu, May 10, 1945)
SHAMBA
1. I give Mubaraki of Shamba to the entire Jamat.
(Manjevadi - Saturday, December 30, 1893)
2. My body was physically far but remained in remembrance of you Jamat day and night. I accept today the congratulation of the dastbosi of Shamba, not only for once but accept for ten times.
(Bombay – November 28, 1907)
3. I accept your dastbosi of all those Shambas being passed during my physical absence of 18 months.
(Bombay, January 01, 1910)
4. For my true believers (momin), every day is a day of Eid and Shamba.
(Rajkot – February 10, 1923)
5. I accept your dastbosi of all those Shambas being passed away during my five years’ absence from India.
(Bombay, December 15, 1933)
6. I accept the dastbosi of all the ladies, brothers, children etc. of the 52 Shambas equal to one year.
(Kisumu, May 10, 1945)
This mijlas as all other mijlases including those not practised by Ismailis in some regions, are for the benefit of those who believe in them and those who need the blessings and benefits that comes from those mijlases.
Some have been lucky that their faith has evolved in the presence of the Imam.
For other it is the same difference there is between water and Abe Safa, not everyone understand the difference.
Some have been lucky that their faith has evolved in the presence of the Imam.
For other it is the same difference there is between water and Abe Safa, not everyone understand the difference.
Mijlases were held since time immemorial. In the time of Mowlana Krishna, they were called Yagna.shivaathervedi wrote: Majalis are not inherent or essential part of Ismaili tenets. Mostly were started in time of MSMS
Tara Rani was attending BK Mijlas.
There are Farmans made in private mijlases by Imam Baqir (Ummul Kitab) and one of the Mijlas conducted in the 16th Century among Ismailis of Afganistan was even copied and transposed in Europe under the name of illuminati. Of course without the guidance of Imam, the Illuminati concept was soon to be corrupted.
Even today the present Imam has confirmed in Farmans that the concept of those mijlases go back to centuries and in one of the Mijlases, the present Imam event described some Mijlases in the Alamut time which were followed by Jamanr (feast) and dancing!
Mijlas Farmans are not allowed here but even if they were, I would not give them here.
Not everyone deserve the Farmans but Imam always make sure those who deserve them get them in due time. Without Farmans, there is only Darkness.
A recent article worthy of reading and reflection:
SHAH MAWLA’JO ROJO & SHAMBO
By: Mumtaz Ali Tajddin S. Ali
[email protected]
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A% ... 3942370969
SHAH MAWLA’JO ROJO & SHAMBO
By: Mumtaz Ali Tajddin S. Ali
[email protected]
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A% ... 3942370969
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swamidada_1
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"It is improper claim of some persons that the Shamba is the occasion of the marriage of Hazrat Ali with Fatima. Granted for a while that it is the wedding occasion, then it must be celebrated worldwide in the Jamatkhanas like Yaum-e-Ali and Eid-e-Ghadir in accordance with the holy guidance".
With reference to above paragraph from the article, I am quoting the following part of choghriyo. What is the significance of this part?
yaaraa tith satai(n) maa rohonn nakhshatra
sa(n)j thaavar thi(n)do shaahjo viaa(n)
O friend! It will be the seventh day of the month and the star will be Rohni(the fourth lunar mansion or constellation, containing five stars, in the form of a cart); and it will be in the evening of Thaver(day of Friday and the night of Saturday), the marriage of my Lord will take place.
My other query is, why Ismaili male are not allowed in this majlis?
With reference to above paragraph from the article, I am quoting the following part of choghriyo. What is the significance of this part?
yaaraa tith satai(n) maa rohonn nakhshatra
sa(n)j thaavar thi(n)do shaahjo viaa(n)
O friend! It will be the seventh day of the month and the star will be Rohni(the fourth lunar mansion or constellation, containing five stars, in the form of a cart); and it will be in the evening of Thaver(day of Friday and the night of Saturday), the marriage of my Lord will take place.
My other query is, why Ismaili male are not allowed in this majlis?
In Canda and Africa men are attending Sataima jo Rojo dedicated to the celebration of the "Aswari" of the Imam (now rebranded Molwa jo Rojo celebrating only resolution of difficulties)
When Ismailis settled in Canada, Mowlana Hazar Imam made a Farman to continue practising the way they were practising in East Africa ad the Mijlas of Sataima therefore continued in the same way which is that both men an women are participating in this Mijlas.
There are Talikas for this Mijlas, though they do not say who should participate, but the dates of those Talikas are way past the dates when some are saying our Imam "discontinued this Mijlas".
When Ismailis settled in Canada, Mowlana Hazar Imam made a Farman to continue practising the way they were practising in East Africa ad the Mijlas of Sataima therefore continued in the same way which is that both men an women are participating in this Mijlas.
There are Talikas for this Mijlas, though they do not say who should participate, but the dates of those Talikas are way past the dates when some are saying our Imam "discontinued this Mijlas".
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swamidada_1
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Thanks for input, but in other countries men are not allowed in that particular majlis. You answered my 2nd question but did not shed light on first one, let me quote again:Admin wrote:In Canda and Africa men are attending Sataima jo Rojo dedicated to the celebration of the "Aswari" of the Imam (now rebranded Molwa jo Rojo celebrating only resolution of difficulties)
When Ismailis settled in Canada, Mowlana Hazar Imam made a Farman to continue practising the way they were practising in East Africa ad the Mijlas of Sataima therefore continued in the same way which is that both men an women are participating in this Mijlas.
There are Talikas for this Mijlas, though they do not say who should participate, but the dates of those Talikas are way past the dates when some are saying our Imam "discontinued this Mijlas".
"It is improper claim of some persons that the Shamba is the occasion of the marriage of Hazrat Ali with Fatima. Granted for a while that it is the wedding occasion, then it must be celebrated worldwide in the Jamatkhanas like Yaum-e-Ali and Eid-e-Ghadir in accordance with the holy guidance".
With reference to above paragraph from the article, I am quoting the following part of choghriyo. What is the significance of this part?
yaaraa tith satai(n) maa rohonn nakhshatra
sa(n)j thaavar thi(n)do shaahjo viaa(n)
O friend! It will be the seventh day of the month and the star will be Rohni(the fourth lunar mansion or constellation, containing five stars, in the form of a cart); and it will be in the evening of Thaver(day of Friday and the night of Saturday), the marriage of my Lord will take place.
There are 3 important phrases;
Satai(n) mah
Sanjh Thawar
Thi(n)do Shah jo viyaa(n)
It is interesting to note "Thi(n)do Shah jo viyaa(n)", thi(n)do means will happen, viyaa(n) "marraige" of Imam!!
Is there any historical background of this part?